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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:23 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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Positive and Negative Rights

Seeing as how there's a distinct misunderstanding on what constitutes a Positive right and a Negative right I'm going to start a thread that gives examples of both ...

So let's start

Negative Right: The right to free speech
Positive Right: The right to free health care

next?
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:49 PM
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This seems like a pretty good explanation of the difference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativ...ositive_rights
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:54 PM
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Re: Positive and Negative

See, right there, you've already lost the liberals by using terms from math.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
Re: Positive and Negative

See, right there, you've already lost the liberals by using terms from math.
Perhaps as everything should be equal.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
Re: Positive and Negative

See, right there, you've already lost the liberals by using terms from math.
Liberals don't understand math?
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil Morse View Post
Liberals don't understand math?
I'm sorry, you're right, I was a bit exclusionary. I should have included economics, the difference between democracy and a republic, the role of the Constitution, and many other subjects.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
Re: Positive and Negative

See, right there, you've already lost the liberals by using terms from math.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_...olitical_views
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
I'm sorry, you're right, I was a bit exclusionary. I should have included economics, the difference between democracy and a republic, the role of the Constitution, and many other subjects.
That not liberals you're talking about, that's the majority of the COUNTRY...and the pols DEPEND on it to slide stuff under the door without people noticing.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Positive right - a right which allows you to do something.
Negative right - a right which prevents others from doing things to you. See also: U.S. Constitution
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by n00b-E View Post
Positive right - a right which allows you to do something.
Negative right - a right which prevents others from doing things to you. See also: U.S. Constitution
Mostly having to pay for someone else's "rights".

Most of what the left calls rights would be summed up as wishes is based on a proper read of the U.S. Constitution.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Punkie View Post
Some people are so literal when it is convenient. Yes, I am aware that there are some very left wing and even downright communist physicists. They don't have much political influence, and never have, and are not representative of the liberal voting block.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by n00b-E View Post
Positive right - a right which allows you to do something.
Negative right - a right which prevents others from doing things to you. See also: U.S. Constitution
Actually

A Negative right is a right that isn't subject to the actions of another.
A Positive right is a right that requires a second party to perform an action.

The problem with Positive rights are two fold

1) It imposes an imposition on a second party
2) It's a "given" right, which implies it can also be taken away by the entity that gives the right in the first place.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
Some people are so literal when it is convenient. Yes, I am aware that there are some very left wing and even downright communist physicists. They don't have much political influence, and never have, and are not representative of the liberal voting block.
You believe.
You made a sweeping statement that was easily proved incorrect.
Using your logic, I could now say that conservatives can't get anything right and be just as accurate as you were.


It would probably be best for you to stick to things you can prove are correct.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Punkie View Post
You believe.
You made a sweeping statement that was easily proved incorrect.
Using your logic, I could now say that conservatives can't get anything right and be just as accurate as you were.


It would probably be best for you to stick to things you can prove are correct.
I made a statement that is true. I knew before I made it of counter examples. You're free to say whatever you want, and pat yourself on your back for pointing out an exception, but getting people to take you seriously is a different matter.

Out of curiosity, are you a self-classified liberal or progressive or marxist?
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
I made a statement that is true. I knew before I made it of counter examples. You're free to say whatever you want, and pat yourself on your back for pointing out an exception, but getting people to take you seriously is a different matter.

Out of curiosity, are you a self-classified liberal or progressive or marxist?
Union card carrying Socialist.
Trade union activist.

I am not a "Liberal" a bloody stupid term apparently used by folk who don't understand politics.
Progressive, well if you believe helping progress the rights of the working man as progressive then yes.
Marxist, there are probably some aspects of Marxist theory in my personal philosophy, but there are plenty of other aspects from other political theories in there as well, so I would not limit myself in that way.

You made a statement that was easily proved wrong, you said
Quote:
Re: Positive and Negative

See, right there, you've already lost the liberals by using terms from math.
Now I take it you would include Socialists, communists, Greens, well anyone to the left of you in your "Liberal" grouping, yes?
You made no exceptions, there was no "Well except for those that are mathematicians, or those that did school above grade whatever" so you made it clear all people to the political left of you could not tell positive from negative, it would appear that you got it wrong, there are plenty of people to the left of you that know positive from negative.

Quote:
I made a statement that is true. I knew before I made it of counter examples.
If it has exceptions, how can it be true? True apart from when it is not true?
Is it possible to take such a contradictory statement seriously?

Have a nice day.
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