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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
Thanks Tom,just checking because back a while ago there was talk about maybe a new model and haven't heard anything so wasn't even sure there if there will be a new model at all.
Will just have to wait and see.




Now the camera issue.

Well,tried unplug/plug the battery,tried different memory cards even different power supplies (5v usb) and the last thing i had that could be swapped was the lens.

As you were typing that reply Tom i had been sitting at the desk swapping the lenses and to my happy surprise after re-installing the original lens the camera worked just as it had before.

What a great feeling to see that yellow led start flashing!

So the problem was/is within the lens module or the ribbon cable.
Holding the module up so bright light from a lamp shines through the ribbon cable and with a 14x eye scope i looked carefully at both sides and all the traces look good,no obvious cracks or burn marks so maybe something happened inside the module from a hard landing...well those who don't fly might have called it a crash landing.

So i guess this lens d module is now for the broken parts bin the lens itself will be removed and saved,..back to the original more narrow blue lens for a while.



EDIT:
I would like to try installing the D lens a couple more times just to be certain the lens is in fact inoperable.
Is there any chance that doing that might permanently damage the camera?....nevermind,better not push my luck with the camera.
Well, I've "swapped" lenses (lens modules) many, many times and my camera still works. To be fair, it was mostly with the #11/#18, but I would say well over 50 times. If you're careful and don't bend the ribbon cable or force anything, I see no real danger. Maybe you could try wiping the ribbon contacts with Isopropyl alcohol and check that the contacts themselves are intact.
Most likely your hard landing dislodged the ribbon contacts but there is also the chance that two or more contacts became shorted together. This may have destroyed the module. If you have a second #16 it would be interesting to see if your lens module works in it - doubtful if it doesn't work in the original.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:28 AM
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United States, TX, Houston
Joined Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by urbansniper View Post
thanks so much...decided on the "D" lens, and ordered an extra battery from ebay user novotm. looking forward to trying it out...first thing i will do is strap it onto a 70mm EDF F35 i just finished...

Video of first few flights with the camera! Sorry, the buzzing sound is the rubber band i used to help secure. will use something else next time...

20130126 Scratch Build F35 & Keychain Camera (2 min 17 sec)
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:45 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
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Joined Aug 2008
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Some Experimantation

Removed the D lens from it's module,was fairly easy to scrape away the glue and the lens unscrewed with no trouble.
Then began thinking about removing the original blue lens from it's module and replace it with the lens D.
Began scraping the glue from the blue lens and the glue on that lens was easier to remove.
Installed the lens D into the original blue lens module,screwing the lens in to the glue line on the threads.
Made a test video and the lens was very much out of focus,so used web cam to view and focus at the same time which got me in the ballpark.

Wasn't sure if the D lens would give a good image in the blue lens module but so far so good, (it's foggy with 1/4 mi visibility right now) will have to wait for the sun to return to see for sure how well the image looks.


Anyone have any suggestion or technique to best focus the camera for aerial use?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:48 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
Some Experimantation

Removed the D lens from it's module,was fairly easy to scrape away the glue and the lens unscrewed with no trouble.
Then began thinking about removing the original blue lens from it's module and replace it with the lens D.
Began scraping the glue from the blue lens and the glue on that lens was easier to remove.
Installed the lens D into the original blue lens module,screwing the lens in to the glue line on the threads.
Made a test video and the lens was very much out of focus,so used web cam to view and focus at the same time which got me in the ballpark.

Wasn't sure if the D lens would give a good image in the blue lens module but so far so good, (it's foggy with 1/4 mi visibility right now) will have to wait for the sun to return to see for sure how well the image looks.


Anyone have any suggestion or technique to best focus the camera for aerial use?
I believe the CMOS imager is the same model regardless of what lens is installed, and it would make sense that they would not all be screwed into the exact same spot with different focal lengths. But there ARE some features built into the CMOS controller that COULD be used to optimize it for a specific lens, such as a lens correction feature that can proportionally boost gain of individual pixels based on how far they are from the lens center. This can be used to virtually eliminate the brightness variation cause by vignetting! But I'm pretty sure this has to be programmed during development and it's not been implemented unfortunately. Or maybe fortunately, since swapping in a different lens such as you just did would almost certainly not match the correction formula for a different lens, so it's a double edged sword!

Like you, I find focus adjust via webcam to be approximate, and when I want to get it dead on, I use a procedure of comparing video clips at slight lens rotational variations from the webcam spot. See the FAQ links in post #1 for details of how I do it.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:58 PM
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I had some success with earlier versions of keychain cameras after seeing a focusing method posted somewhere online.

Basically....

Use something outdoors a reasonable distance away that you can take a photo of and then repeat the procedure. A nice sunny day is best and it doesn't take long so varying lighting shouldn't be a problem. If you have a laptop then the process should be quicker and easier. I didn't at the time and had to keep going inside to connect to my computer.

Take a still photo. Then connect the camera to a computer and look at the size of the file for the still photo. Note the size.

Mark the position of the lens with a small spot of white paint, or similar.

Move the lens a fraction. Take another still photo. Compare the file size of the second photo with the file size of the first one.

If the file has increased in size then... you are adjusting the lens the right way.

Make another small adjustment, take photo, compare file size.

Keep adjusting the lens until you obtain the biggest file size for a still photo that you can, at some stage the file size will reduce so you need to adjust the lens back to the position with the largest file size.

You should now be done and the camera should have the focus set at it's best position. The file size increases as the camera captures more detail.

This worked well for me and I used to have some photos showing the difference
before, during and after adjustment. I don't have them anymore but I remember I posted them on the aerial photography forum ages ago.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:46 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Originally Posted by sparklet View Post
I had some success with earlier versions of keychain cameras after seeing a focusing method posted somewhere online.

Basically....

Use something outdoors a reasonable distance away that you can take a photo of and then repeat the procedure.
...
Take a still photo. Then connect the camera to a computer and look at the size of the file for the still photo. Note the size.
...
Move the lens a fraction. Take another still photo. Compare the file size of the second photo with the file size of the first one.
...
Make another small adjustment, take photo, compare file size.

Keep adjusting the lens until you obtain the biggest file size for a still photo that you can, at some stage the file size will reduce so you need to adjust the lens back to the position with the largest file size.

You should now be done and the camera should have the focus set at it's best position. The file size increases as the camera captures more detail.
I had seen this method mentioned previously, but never tried it because it just seems to me to be approximate at best because it's using indirect results, relying on the JPEG compression algorithm to increase file size as detail in the image becomes better defined. That may be actually what happens, but unless the EXACT same image and lighting conditions are present for each photo, it could easily give a false positive, I'd think? So I never tried it, relying instead on what my eye discerns as being best focus (seeing is believing!)

But now you've got me thinking there might be a better way than what I was doing using the photo time lapse mode! If the camera could be rigidly anchored to capture the same scene while the lens is rotated tiny increments between photos, zeroing in on the best sequence of maybe 4-5 photos would get you pretty close if you kept track of what rotation position the lens was in for each picture. Then repeat with even smaller rotation increments to zero in. When I did this with video, I'd put a piece of tape on the CMOS module and another on the lens barrel, get close with the web cam, then draw a line across the two pieces of tape with a ball point pen. Then shoot video samples on both sides of that line, using "one line width" increments. Then using the best focus from that, repeat with "1/2 line width" increments. Changes that small can produce visible focus changes. But with this method, there would be no motion blurring from a hand held camera and the same scene and lighting could be achieved (close enough) in each photo. It would be a good way to test the validity of the file size method as well!

I think I'll try this when I have some time. It would be faster than taking videos and comparing them frame by frame, and possibly more accurate as well with less compression in the photos!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 30, 2013 at 04:51 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:06 PM
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It worked very well when I tried it. I came across the idea online and decided to give it a go.

I don't think the method need be too fussy. I just used a tiny spot of white paint to mark the lens position.

I had to keep going indoors to the computer and then coming out to take the next photo.

Even allowing for the time between photos it gave a very good result.,

I posted several photos taken while adjusting the lens and quite a few people were impressed as the results were quite clear to see.

I seem to remember settling for "that's near enough" and the improvement gained was easily visible.

I also seem to remember that the difference in file size of the photos was quite a jump.
You may find that 3 or 4 adjustments would give a continuing increase in size. I don't think fine tuning will show much of a difference. As long as the lens is going in the right direction then file size increases. Once it starts dropping then just tweak the lens back a bit and you will probably be as good as it can get.

I probably "tweaked" about 1/8 of a turn at a time - approximately !

When you have time give it a go, Take a photo, record file size. Tweak lens, take another photo, etc.

I reckon around 5 photos and you should see quite an improvement - unless the lens is focused well to start with.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:20 PM
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@Tom, I saw some posts back the details for the new FW 0.67 AVI.
It sounded like it has different features than the 0.67 MOV or does that mean that the MOV version was also fixed and has the same features now?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:57 PM
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Joined Nov 2010
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white video problem update

A while ago I complained about 808 #16v1 poor video quality. It had a white haze to it. I think it came from age or use. Well the problem is solved with a new A lens module that arrive yesterday. The camera works like new again so I threw out the old module and it sure is nice to be able to fix it for $8.99.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:26 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by IceWind View Post
@Tom, I saw some posts back the details for the new FW 0.67 AVI.
It sounded like it has different features than the 0.67 MOV or does that mean that the MOV version was also fixed and has the same features now?
Virtually all of the features are the same. It's just the special 5 fps mode that reacts slightly different, depending on what play/editor is processing the files. BUT, AVI files still have the issue of not being editor-compliant. Unless you need loop recording without the 2 sec. +/- gap between clips, you are much better off to shoot in MOV format and convert them to AVI (if you absolutely NEED AVI for editing, etc.) using the loss-less MP4cam2 AVI converter.
<edit> The MOV version has changed. In addition to the 5 fps issue, when set to 70 min. clip duration it only does 30 min. clips. These differences are explained in the announcement post (search for it with the "search this thread" link in the header). <edit>
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:28 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmimages View Post
A while ago I complained about 808 #16v1 poor video quality. It had a white haze to it. I think it came from age or use. Well the problem is solved with a new A lens module that arrive yesterday. The camera works like new again so I threw out the old module and it sure is nice to be able to fix it for $8.99.
The CMOS module was probably still as good as new. If they sold the lens WITHOUT the CMOS module, for a few $$ less, the fix would be even less expensive. Save the CMOS module as a spare part if you haven't trashed it already.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:21 PM
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Hi, Ive just bought a Keychain 808#16 with Lens D and 16g class 4 Sd card and did the stuff with the program on my PC on the camera, but when i record it only does 260p.
How i can record in 720p when its on 720p on the program ?

Help me please


Edit : This one :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180937263580
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:34 PM
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I hope they will also sell lens only without cmos. The lens A of my keycam has some dusts and i can't seem to remove them.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The CMOS module was probably still as good as new. If they sold the lens WITHOUT the CMOS module, for a few $$ less, the fix would be even less expensive. Save the CMOS module as a spare part if you haven't trashed it already.
Well my intuition was to SAVE but ... Anyway I got cold and fed the wood stove with paper from the waste basket and now its too late.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:18 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by 679alex View Post
Hi, Ive just bought a Keychain 808#16 with Lens D and 16g class 4 Sd card and did the stuff with the program on my PC on the camera, but when i record it only does 260p.
How i can record in 720p when its on 720p on the program ?

Help me please


Edit : This one :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180937263580
Can you post a video clip on Vimeo.com, one directly from the camera with no editing, and paste the URL address here so we can have a look??
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