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Old May 27, 2012, 11:15 PM
"LiPo-Blaster"
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Duluth, GA
Joined Apr 2009
932 Posts
[QUOTE=RugFlyer;21715477]Funny you mention it... I have Twins!

HET 2W-25's(2720kv) mounted in E-Flight Delta V-15 Housings, CS-10 Fans, Extreme-RC 3.17 Shafts (I like these shafts not only because of the nice snug fit but because he's drilled a hole near the end of the shaft which makes tightening the fan blade SO much easier) & Extreme-RC Precision Allow Spinners.

I'm using the E-Flight Delta-V Housings because they're more rigid than the CS housings plus there are spaces cut out of the motor mounts which are designed to keep inrunners running cooler. I'll run this setup on 4S & mainly 5S.

I was originally thinking about running 6S with E-Flight BL-32's but since I already had the 2w-25's and plenty of 4 & 5S lipos I decided to go this direction.

TWM J11B Thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=169

Quote:
Originally Posted by anlucas View Post
Rick, the guy running these on 6s is using small 6s packs.

The 2w25 on 4S pulls 56-58amps so on 5s
You should expect 75_80.
I've been discussing my 2w-25 testing with "anlucas" over on the Wings Maker J11B thread, but thought I'd post it here since it involves the CS-10 Fan. I hope some of you experts might have some insight as to why I'm not getting as strong a numbers as some of the other guys here with the 2W-25!


Just finished testing the 2W-25/CS-10/E-Flight Delta V-15 Housing combo with a Turnigy 100A K-Force ESC set at 18.75 timing (the closest setting, recommended timing is18) on my PVC EDF test stand. I can't begin to tell you how SMOOTH this thing sounds, quite & effortless!
Didn't get Thrust #'s my scale suddenly stopped working, will try to get it up and running then I'll post some numbers up.

4S, 42-45 Amps @ 692-716 Watts w/ a Zippy 2650mAh/45C & a G-Force 3300mAh/35C respectively.

5S, 56-58 Amps @ 1042-1091 Watts w/ a Turnigy 3300mAh/30C and a FlightMax 3000mAh/40C respectively.

6/S, 72 Amps @ 1627.4 Watts w/ a Turnigy 2650mAh/ 30-40C (I don't think I'll be running this motor on 6S!)
Link with Pics: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=174

Well...now I'm cunfused I thought my numbers would improve testing with an Intake Lip.
I tested the same 2W-25/CS-10/E-Flight Delta V-15 Housing combo with the Same batteries this time with a lip(the Delta-V lip) and the numbers are slightly Lower! I did have to set the EDF further up on the test stand because the Lip would not fit down in the tube but still had plenty of intake volume.

W/out Intake Lip 4S, 45.71 Amps @ 716 Watts w/ a G-Force 3300mAh/35C. Starting Voltage 16.76V.
.. With Intake Lip 4S, 44.60Amps @ 695.7 Watts w/ a G-Force 3300mAh/35C. Starting Voltage 16.77V.

W/out Intake Lip 5S, 58.29 Amps @ 1091.7 Watts w/a FlightMax 3000mAh/40C. Starting Voltage 20.90V.
.. With Intake Lip 5S, 57.45 Amps @ 1070.8 Watts w/a FlightMax 3000mAh/40C. Starting Voltage 20.88V.

Any constructive comments would be Appreciated!
Thanks,

-Rick
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Last edited by RugFlyer; May 27, 2012 at 11:41 PM.
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Old May 28, 2012, 12:24 AM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
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The Tacon's are also the same Leopard series motors, as per the Leopard link I gave for the Turnigy 2860's. They are all just rebadged/made leopards.

At 1300w capability, these cases shown are not over-stressing it much at all. So they should be happy and long lasting.
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Old May 28, 2012, 12:50 AM
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San Jose, CA
Joined Jun 2006
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Here is Parkzone Habu 7s 3300mAh TJ70 with CS rotor.

Sorry my camera out of focus.

Parkzone Habu TJ70 CS rotor (3 min 0 sec)
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Old May 28, 2012, 01:25 AM
The Need4Speed
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Malaysia, Perak, Ipoh
Joined Aug 2008
929 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
The Tacon's are also the same Leopard series motors, as per the Leopard link I gave for the Turnigy 2860's. They are all just rebadged/made leopards.

At 1300w capability, these cases shown are not over-stressing it much at all. So they should be happy and long lasting.
Good to know. Now to lookup on all the test results based on these few related motors.
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Old May 28, 2012, 01:41 AM
The Need4Speed
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Malaysia, Perak, Ipoh
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karoliinasalmin View Post
Now I have some new numbers, measured the CS70 fan in Hobbyking 70mm composite L39.

This setup:
- CS70 mm 10 blade -blades
- Red Brick 125A ESC
- 6S 5000 mAh 30C, just charged, good battery
- Turnigy 2860-2200 kV.
- Heatsinks from ExtremeRC (two installed on the motor)
- RC-lander metal fan housing
- Hobbyking Composite L39 70 mm (Pro-Design L39)
- No thrust tube yet since I have not figured out how to fit one in the congested space available in the rear of this plane which also contains elevator pushrod mechanics (and would poke inside the thrust tube even if there was a thrust tube).
- Straight intake in the fan (that seamlessly connects with the ducting of the plane)
- No cheater hole

Everything else is now ok except for thrust. Thrust is poor and thrust per watts is poor.

The numbers:
- 1380 W peak, 58A peak, motor stays cool/slightly warm (if power is stopped immediately)
- 1200 W sustained power, was reading something like 56 amps sustained, motor stays cool
- ESC gets slightly warm
- Electrically everything looks to be sane and okay and I am very pleased that the motor does not cook with this setup
Wonder how he's getting along with his setup
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Old May 28, 2012, 01:50 AM
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Greece, Attica, Athens
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anlucas View Post
I am stumped!

Just spent 1 hour trying to fit a new CP - 2800kv to this fan.
The motor seems to be balance OK - just OK. There's some vibration in the mid-rpm range. Tried 3 different 4m shaft adapters (stock, Hayoe and ExtremeRC) but I could not get anything close to an acceptable fit. There's significant vibration with the shaft adapter attached.
...
Just a follow-on from this post...

In the end it seems that the motor must have an issue. I wasn't totally happy with the result and I disassembled everything.

I run the motor, on 5s, without any load and it's smooth running up to a certain rpm. Afterwards, it starts screaming and I see sparks coming off the middle bearing area (the motor has 3 since it has a standoff).

I didn't notice this in the begining since I was balancing it on 4S.
This is supposed to be 6s(5 blade load) capable motor.

Any suggestions?
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Old May 28, 2012, 01:55 AM
The Need4Speed
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Malaysia, Perak, Ipoh
Joined Aug 2008
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Anlucas,

Could be a loose strand of the windings coming into contact with other parts as it reaches a certain speed.....
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Old May 28, 2012, 02:02 AM
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Vienna, Austria
Joined Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anlucas View Post
Just a follow-on from this post...

I run the motor, on 5s, without any load and it's smooth running up to a certain rpm. Afterwards, it starts screaming and I see sparks coming off the middle bearing area (the motor has 3 since it has a standoff)...
I noticed on some of my motors that the bearings themselves are turning. Happened in a 8-blade AEO, in the L2855 motors too. When moving the shaft the bearing is moving with it, and turning in use.
(in particular I get this in my pusher applications w/ cheap EMAX motors. Loosening the grub screw and allowing for more freeplay made things better, the motors are not getting so hot anymore, and the bad screaching noise is reduced. But on revving up you can still hear the the outer bearing is carried along, albeit wich much slower speed.)

I can imagine that the outer bearing case rotating might be the issue in your case. Try to loosen things up if possible. Funny that putting oil on bearings can make matters worse if you lube the outer part of the bearing - it's even more prone to come loose and rotate...
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Old May 28, 2012, 02:03 AM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
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Technically it is a good 6S setup. (2860-2200kv)
It should be able to do 60+ amps (maybe even towards 70A), and then 1.6 Kg thrust or hopefully a bit more (if towards 70A then towards 1.8Kg). And do that without a sweat really.
But at the cost of 100g or so extra weight over an outrunner.
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Old May 28, 2012, 02:04 AM
The Need4Speed
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Malaysia, Perak, Ipoh
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It might come in handy to have a heavy motor when I need bigger batteries up front. I am also hoping it'll be much easier to balance.
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Old May 28, 2012, 02:12 AM
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Greece, Attica, Athens
Joined May 2011
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2 short Videos to show what I am experiencing.

First on 4S.

CP480-2800kv 4S test (0 min 8 sec)


Second on 5S

CS480 - 2800kv 5S no load test (0 min 11 sec)


No sparks this time but if I kept it up they would come. There's was a bit of smell coming off.
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Old May 28, 2012, 02:41 AM
It should fly at least once
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Australia, NSW, Grenfell
Joined Mar 2006
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Can you remove the extension and see what the motor does then.
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Old May 28, 2012, 03:54 AM
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Greece, Attica, Athens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clive45 View Post
Can you remove the extension and see what the motor does then.
Difficult to remove.

Something occurred to me. Could this be timing related?

I am using a DLUX 100amp set on automatic timing (low I guess).

Will experiment with medium and high timing to see if anything changes.

Will also check with another ESC.
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:42 AM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
11,265 Posts
I have had motors do what seems to be the exact same thing due to timing.
And more importantly, at least once due to the ESC.... no settings could cure it totally. Which then another ESC ran the motor totally fine.

It seems best to always start at low timing for any motor, and then test it 'quickly' through higher timings. Throttle it up linearly SLOWLY and take note of its smoothness, so you can stop as soon as issues begin.

The "Timing" is the advance angle of the motor waveform, so advancing too far means it can actually reach a point where it tries to reverse the direction of rotation for a 'micron' of time that the waveform "got there too soon" (pretty rough and crappy layman explanation, lol)... and thus the stuttering etc you can get.
You can compare it pretty well exactly to what the timing advance on a car engine does..... fire the fuel (spark) too soon while the piston is still rising, and thus too much advance can make the combustion try to reverse the piston travel - fighting the engines proper rotation inertia. Detrimental to be too far advanced ('knocking', and possible damaged gudgeons or pistons)

So try that settings idea you had, and also another ESC.
Though interesting was that in my case the 'crap' ESC was a Birdie, and the next one I tried, and which worked totally fine, was a Turnigy Deluxe 40A, which made me think they must be a 'better' ESC. (which is what yours is - or maybe it has some problem?)
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Old May 28, 2012, 08:14 AM
John
jk671's Avatar
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Mar 2011
436 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by anlucas View Post
Just a follow-on from this post...

In the end it seems that the motor must have an issue. I wasn't totally happy with the result and I disassembled everything.

I run the motor, on 5s, without any load and it's smooth running up to a certain rpm. Afterwards, it starts screaming and I see sparks coming off the middle bearing area (the motor has 3 since it has a standoff).

I didn't notice this in the begining since I was balancing it on 4S.
This is supposed to be 6s(5 blade load) capable motor.

Any suggestions?
I thought you arent supposed to go past half throttle with no load on the motor,
The motor will spin faster than it's supposed to!
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