HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 19, 2011, 06:20 PM
Registered User
shigetyann's Avatar
centrea Japan
Joined Nov 2006
465 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddb1 View Post
Once the little bit of wind catches the wing and gets up under it, the opposing wing tip digs into the water and keeps me from going anywhere. If I try to speed up the Icon just spins around the wingtip thats in the water. I think wing sponsons would help?!

I think closswind, one of triggers, causes such behavior.
From our experiences, model planes like IKON-A5, having large lateral area, are hard to take off and landing in crosswind.
If your flying field arrows a direction to take off and landing dead ahead against wind, you will have no problem, except to be attentive to waves.
I heard from a real pilot, also my friend, real planes do this.
Of course, as in former responses mentioned, antitorque kicked up by prop causes left wing tip touching down in the water easily.

Thanks
shigetyann is offline Find More Posts by shigetyann
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Coming soaling season in Japan
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 19, 2011, 07:25 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,575 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer31 View Post
Another possibility, for maintaining stable condition, during takeoff & landing, would be a wing-leveler. Such a system could consist of a single rate-gyro, which can be switched on or off, to control the aileron servos, during takeoff & landing phases. The "magic" trick of a wing-leveler is that its gyro-axis is canted exactly 55 degrees up, with respect to the horizontal centerline of the fuselage. What that does is to respond to any gust-caused upset of the model, whether in the yaw or roll mode, and give aileron to correct it.

While it may well be necessary to add spray-rails to the bow edges, to help control how the water reacts with the hull, and maybe greater span/volume to the sponsons, a wing-leveler system has the advantage of being able to respond instantly to the problem! (Even faster than Shigetyann, and his good-flying racer friends, especially when it is 0 degrees C, at the pond)!
When I have this issue with a flying boat, it happens when the model is not moving enough for the ailerons to lift the wing, at all.

Thus, it would not matter if you had a wing leveller, or not, as the wing leveller will only function once you are moving fast enough to get enough aileron effect to lift the wing that is dragging the water.

And when the wing tip (or even a sunken tip float on a model other than the Icon being discussed here) is dragging deeply in the water, the model will go around and around and never left the wing, no matter if you OR the wing leveller is trying to raise the wing.....

Some models respond well to a blast of power and a large rudder input and you can lift the wing that way. And some don't.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 07:38 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,575 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SON OF PALEFACE View Post
if you watch the vids you will see how a bit of speed works
Seplanes rarely suffer from this issue being discussed if they are moving along with some speed up on the step of the hull or nearly on step.

However, at some point you have to be able to taxi slowly. In close to other folks and models on the shore, turning around after a landing run. positioning for a takeoff run, etc. That is when the sponsons really need to work better dealing with a crosswind and in those cases, speed will not help.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 10:42 PM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
SON OF PALEFACE's Avatar
YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
5,234 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Seplanes rarely suffer from this issue being discussed if they are moving along with some speed up on the step of the hull or nearly on step.

However, at some point you have to be able to taxi slowly. In close to other folks and models on the shore, turning around after a landing run. positioning for a takeoff run, etc. That is when the sponsons really need to work better dealing with a crosswind and in those cases, speed will not help.
Obviously.....but with carfull positioning while you have control , you can go to a position that leads to getting where you want to be....if you get my 'drift'
SON OF PALEFACE is offline Find More Posts by SON OF PALEFACE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 11:14 PM
Registered User
Vancouver, BC
Joined Aug 2009
2,061 Posts
I wonder if extending the water rudder a bit further down would help as well?
Firehawk989 is offline Find More Posts by Firehawk989
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 01:16 AM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
SON OF PALEFACE's Avatar
YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
5,234 Posts
It probab wood , but wood then be easier to rip off on debris....cant wait for mine 2 arrive
SON OF PALEFACE is offline Find More Posts by SON OF PALEFACE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 03:37 AM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Joined May 2010
2,929 Posts
if anything i'd extend the length of the water rudder, not the depth, that would give it more authority for sure, and not a bad idea... but the offset of that is the additional load on the steerage servo...
AussieHoppy is online now Find More Posts by AussieHoppy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Back street quad cruisin'
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 11:58 AM
Registered User
kitaro's Avatar
Italy, Tuscany
Joined Apr 2006
100 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieHoppy View Post
if anything i'd extend the length of the water rudder, not the depth, that would give it more authority for sure, and not a bad idea... but the offset of that is the additional load on the steerage servo...


As I promised, here MANUAL

my assemble job is in pause mode....i cut out ailerons and flaps and inserted 4 wing servos....next step .....??
kitaro is offline Find More Posts by kitaro
Last edited by kitaro; Jan 20, 2011 at 12:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 02:04 PM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
SON OF PALEFACE's Avatar
YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
5,234 Posts
If you want to extend the rudder down....simply glue a skeg....a triangular piece in front of the rudder , so debris is defected down...the extra area will help keep it straight during take-off

Ian
SON OF PALEFACE is offline Find More Posts by SON OF PALEFACE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:26 AM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Joined May 2010
2,929 Posts
i'll be grass landing more than water landings, so extending down is out for me
AussieHoppy is online now Find More Posts by AussieHoppy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Back street quad cruisin'
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:48 AM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
SON OF PALEFACE's Avatar
YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
5,234 Posts
Well mine arrived today...bit of a fat barsted.....
very carefully retapped the blind nuts with cutting goo on the tap and did all but the rear in the fin......chinese need to get their thread forming right.........get yourself a medium 3mm tapp and go at it very slowly
the pushrod for the main retracts will be reinforced with some carbon tube over , the mains need freeing up with some PTFE spray
The left root ply rib was just slapped on out of alignment...DUH...and the rudder hinges were glued in with a large gap...more DUH...managed to pull them out and will reglue properly
Will install spray strips along the chines and foward of the side sponsons to help keep water out of the cockpit
I think the reason it dips a wing in is that the side sponsons are not deep enough and have enough volume.....will look at this when I get it together with floatation tests
Twill be interesting to see how slow it flys with flaps down.....

Overall I like it (so far) and the shipping from Moruya N.S.W. , OUTSTANDING , got it in 4 days

Ian
SON OF PALEFACE is offline Find More Posts by SON OF PALEFACE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:05 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,575 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SON OF PALEFACE View Post
......

I think the reason it dips a wing in is that the side sponsons are not deep enough and have enough volume.....will look at this when I get it together with floatation tests
......
Ian
Zero doubt that they are not big enough due to scale effects, as I posted some analysis about that earlier in the thread. Needs more foam outboard and some a little deeper on the outboard parts of the sponson, so that the added foam has the best moment arm to support the model when it tilts.

Some low wing and mid wing models do a little better with smallish sponsons, as the wing does not have to dip very far to get a little floatation at the tip. A high wing sponson equipped model like the Icon ends up tipped over much more when the sponsons are not large enough, making it harder to get the wings level.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2011, 09:54 PM
Registered User
Spotsylvania, VA
Joined Nov 2005
94 Posts
I ordered mine around 1 January and it just left China yesterday. Wish it only took 4 days for me. Can't wait to start on it. I'm still going to glass it.
mmmdowning is offline Find More Posts by mmmdowning
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2011, 08:41 PM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Joined May 2010
2,929 Posts
make it a real interesting project... f'glass it, get rid of the foam, throw in some formers, then you have an all fibreglass Icon totally non-foam!

personally i wouldnt do it, but it would be kinda interesting to see how a totally fibreglass Icon would fly compared to the straight-outa-the-box foamie...
AussieHoppy is online now Find More Posts by AussieHoppy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Back street quad cruisin'
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:51 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,575 Posts
Was watching a movie tonight and enjoyed seeing a cameo appearance by the real Icon A5 in the movie "Knight and Day".......... not enough of it, though....
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Icon-a5 amphibious parkflyer ( new picture and plan ) kylevn Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 106 Jul 01, 2012 10:28 AM
New Product Seaplane ICON A5 by Guanli kitaro Scale ARF/RTF 4 Sep 04, 2011 05:22 PM
Discussion GuanLi Icon A5 for FPV popoti FPV Talk 22 Nov 11, 2010 10:40 AM
Discussion Interesting new LSA amphibian in the works: The Icon A5 Thomas B Waterplanes 30 May 14, 2010 02:00 AM
Discussion micro icon a5 afitz87 Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 4 Apr 24, 2010 11:47 AM