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Old Dec 30, 2014, 11:24 PM
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E-flite power .60 vs Rimfire .60

I'm going from gas to electric in a 40 size H9 P-51. Looking for some speed so I was planning on running a E-flite .60 470kv, 85 amp ESC and a 6s 4000mah lipo. I have everything ready to build. Then I see the Rimfire .60 650KV. Though the only had a .55 in that size.

I'm thinking I could get some more speed out of the 650kv Rimfire?
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Old Dec 31, 2014, 12:28 AM
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The Rimfire is a significantly smaller motor, and most folks would consider its claimed power handling specs somewhat overstated.

Assuming 6S, you'd have to run about an 11x8.5 with the Rimfire to stay within its limits, with predicted 55A/1150W, 160oz static thrust and 99mph pitch speed.

With the Power 60B and a 14x12, you're looking at more like 64A/ 1350W, 230oz static and 98mph pitch speed.

I've been recently flying a Seagull Nemesis .46 on a Hyperion Zs4025-10 which is similar in size to the Power 60 but just a little higher Kv at 510 with a 12x13 and 13x10. Nicely fast, and the motor was not overstressed.

Point is, Kv is not the only thing for speed - power handling and size for the job and interaction of Kv. voltage and prop thrust and pitch speed are what counts. Also, the weight of the motor needed to balance is worth considering - no point in going for a smaller highly stressed motor + ballast when a bigger motor turning a higher pitched prop can do a better job.

IMO, Kv around 500 on 6S gives all sorts of good prop choices on 6S, from low to high speed.

If you can make the motor and battery fit - should be a lotta fun - about double the power of the recommended Power 46, 4S 13x8
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Old Dec 31, 2014, 09:07 AM
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+1 on everything that scirocco says. I have planes with e-flite & rimfire motors. They have all worked fine. I don't stress them anywhere near their stated max outputs. I do think that you are over-motoring that plane a bunch. Another option would be to use a rimfire .46, 800kv motor with a 4 or 5s 3700-4000mah batt. Shead some real weight by doing so and have a much nicer handling, flying & landing airplane and I think she would rip! But, as scirocco mentions, achieving balance is the key. A slightly larger power system is always better than lead weight. Good luck, Blue skies!

Rick
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Old Dec 31, 2014, 09:36 AM
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The Kv for the RimFire is too high to be able to turn a useful prop on 6S. Although the power might be there in terms of watts, the smaller prop will be less efficient. I would go with the Eflite 60.

Good luck,

Teo

PS. I have the Eflite .60 and I have used it on 5S turning a 16x12 prop for a spot aerobatic airplane. With that set-up, you get about 1000 watts.
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Old Dec 31, 2014, 03:29 PM
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While it's always exciting to grab everything you need at once, it might be worth building the model first and then choose your motor based on the weight you need. For example, if it's trending nose heavy, instead of the Power 60B, I'd recommend an OS 5020-490. I run that in my Hyperion Hayate 40e, which is very similar in size and weight to the H9 P-51. With a 13x10 on 6S it is nicely fast and has very strong verticals
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Old Dec 31, 2014, 05:46 PM
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Actually, that is a good recommendation. I also have the OS 5020-490 and run it on 5S turning a 16x10 prop. The combo provides about 1200-1300 watts or power. On 6S, as suggested, a 13" prop would work well. I have two OS motors and I really like them, they are nicely made and work well. The motors are relatively new, but I probably have 50 flights on the 5020-490 without any issues. I am surprised the motors are not more popular (they knida fill the gap between the E-flite's and Rimfire's in term of KV).

Teo
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Old Dec 31, 2014, 06:40 PM
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I used a Scorpion 4020-12 (540kv) with an 80A Turnigy Plush Esc on 6s/5000/30c turning a 12/12 Apc E prop for some speed on my 6 lb 40 sized racer. GPS showed 124.6 mph in level flight, not bad. fwiw Doug B
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Old Dec 31, 2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viva_peru View Post
Actually, that is a good recommendation. I also have the OS 5020-490 and run it on 5S turning a 16x10 prop. The combo provides about 1200-1300 watts or power. On 6S, as suggested, a 13" prop would work well. I have two OS motors and I really like them, they are nicely made and work well. The motors are relatively new, but I probably have 50 flights on the 5020-490 without any issues. I am surprised the motors are not more popular (they knida fill the gap between the E-flite's and Rimfire's in term of KV).

Teo
I'm using most of the OS range and find they are particularly smooth and quiet, and tend to run reasonably cool even when operated at over 4 W/g max. The 5025-375 on 6S and 16x12 takes a 7lb pattern model vertically accelerating. The same setup in an 8lb classic pattern model shocked guys flying the same model on OS .75AX. I hadn't got the same impression when flying it myself, but in practise for a simple pattern routine I realised I had very little time to adjust verticals and was getting very high in the same time as the .75 glow powered model.

The 3825-750 is very sweet in a Supercub 25E on 4S with a 13x6.5, and would be a good lightweight choice for the P-51 on 4S with a 12x10
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Old Jan 01, 2015, 04:27 PM
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Thanks for the response about these engines. Looks like the 60B will fit just fine and the CG should be about the same. I'm replacing a EVO 10cc, done with the mess and tuning. The OS motors look nice also. I will look into them in the future.
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Old Jan 02, 2015, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMHIGHFLYER View Post
I'm going from gas to electric in a 40 size H9 P-51. Looking for some speed so I was planning on running a E-flite .60 470kv, 85 amp ESC and a 6s 4000mah lipo. I have everything ready to build. Then I see the Rimfire .60 650KV. Though the only had a .55 in that size.

I'm thinking I could get some more speed out of the 650kv Rimfire?
A decent rule of thumb for power output capabilities of a brushless outrunner motor is about 100 watts per ounce of motor weight. That Rimfire 0.60 motor is claiming 1600 Watts with a motor weight of 10.5 ounces. Breaks down to 152 Watts per ounce of motor weight. Assuming you can actually hit 1600 Watts with it, that motor is going to run HOT. And, worse, its efficiency won't be much good either.
An alternative is the Scorpion 4025-10 motor, with a weight of 12 oz, 512 Kv, 2.3 Amps no load, 0.016 ohms winding resistance. Using www.motocalc.com, the Scorpion motor will run at 1100 Watts, 88% efficiency, turning a 14X10 prop at 8300 RPM.

A slightly better motor would be the Hacker A50-12S motor. I've got three of them, and they are real powerhouses. The Hacker A50-10S motor will turn a 11-10 prop at near 11,000 RPM, with a prop blade pitch speed of 112 MPH. Problem is trying to get one in the USA. One of the suppliers in Arizona closed shop in 2015.

Motofly motors come recommended in www.wattflyer.com. They have a variety of KV numbers for each motor frame size. But, they are not cheap.
http://www.subsonicplanes.com/Motrolfly_Motors.html
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Old Jan 03, 2015, 09:32 AM
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Hackers can be bought easily at Esprit Model now. I was saddened to see Hacker USA close down too, they always provided me with good sales and support on my various motors (big EDF motors need new bearings from time to time and they were good on the maintenance service side). They closed not because of no sales, it was because of too much business from their competing business apparently! Model aviation was not profitable enough for the resources they spent on it I guess.

Interesting to hear about the OS motors. Never considered them up until now.
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Old Jan 03, 2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddie P View Post
Hackers can be bought easily at Esprit Model now. I was saddened to see Hacker USA close down too, they always provided me with good sales and support on my various motors (big EDF motors need new bearings from time to time and they were good on the maintenance service side). They closed not because of no sales, it was because of too much business from their competing business apparently! Model aviation was not profitable enough for the resources they spent on it I guess.

Interesting to hear about the OS motors. Never considered them up until now.
Ah, good to hear.

http://www.espritmodel.com/search.aspx?find=Hacker+a60

http://www.espritmodel.com/search.aspx?find=hacker
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Old Jan 06, 2015, 10:02 AM
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How large of a prop can that bird take? I know that my hangar 9 P-51 40 size can only handle up to about a 12-12.5 inch prop. That said, you may be doing the plan a disservice with a 60 sized motor. A 12 inch prop on a power 60 on 6S won't give you the same watts as a Power 52 with the same setup due to the higher KV and amp capability of a 52. A 52 would be better matched with that setup to give you performance in my opinion. Power 60 will just slow you down unless you can find a 12 inch prop with some serious pitch on it.

My p-51 runs a power 52, 80 amp esc, 12x8 apc prop, on 6S 5000mah nanotechs. I have unlimited vertical climb with that setup and some wicked performance.
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Old Jan 06, 2015, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by drakison View Post
How large of a prop can that bird take? I know that my hangar 9 P-51 40 size can only handle up to about a 12-12.5 inch prop. That said, you may be doing the plan a disservice with a 60 sized motor. A 12 inch prop on a power 60 on 6S won't give you the same watts as a Power 52 with the same setup due to the higher KV and amp capability of a 52. A 52 would be better matched with that setup to give you performance in my opinion. Power 60 will just slow you down unless you can find a 12 inch prop with some serious pitch on it.

My p-51 runs a power 52, 80 amp esc, 12x8 apc prop, on 6S 5000mah nanotechs. I have unlimited vertical climb with that setup and some wicked performance.
I agree with you on the power 52. The power 60 the a motor I have already. I was thinking of trying to run a 13 inch prop with the 60B 80 amp ESC on 6s. Learning as I go, as I have been flying gas for years. A lot of great info in this forum!

I may go with another motor now with a the info I'm getting from this thread. Thanks!
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Old Jan 16, 2015, 10:51 AM
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Glad I found this thread... good information. I have an H9 piper pawnee 40 that I am getting ready to put together and the recommended setup says to use the power .46 but it seems most people say there isn't a lot of extra power using that. I too noticed that the rimfire .60 really didn't seem to provide a significant bump when looking at the specs and recommended prop ranges.

I want to run the larger recommended prop which is a 14x7 and it seems that I'd need a .80 which has the same length specs as the power .46 which is a plus but not sure if it will be able to use the same bolt pattern as the power .46.

So paper wise it seems where I don't own a 6x battery but I do have several 5s lipos that the power .52 would be a good solution and provide 130 watts per pound flying without going over the continuous current number. Am I digging where there's taters or am I way off in my thinking? Also, given the watts per pound would I be pushing it if I were to use the phoenix edge 75A esc?

I was looking at the OS motors but it appears to get the power to pound above 100 watts I'd have to get the 5025-375 meaning doubling up my batteries to get enough voltage. Not opposed to doing that and will consider going that route if it proves to be I need more weight in the nose.
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