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Old Jul 29, 2014, 03:18 PM
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New Product
Avitron V3.0 from AirHogs

Probably the market for $100 Avitrons is exhausted , now is the time for $50 (it's just my speculation) Avitrons but from AirHogs . Coming soon to stores in August!
Air Hogs FireWing - In Stores August 2014 (0 min 36 sec)
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Old Jul 29, 2014, 05:55 PM
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It does look like an avitron, and would seem to be a clone, but I wouldn't confuse people by calling it Avitron v3.0. Especially since XTim (the actual avitron maker) is developing a more powerful, and I assume bigger, bird to be released next year that may already be called Avitron v3.0

- DaVinci's Brainchild
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Old Jul 29, 2014, 10:09 PM
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[QUOTE=DaVinciBrainchld;29042833]It does look like an avitron, and is obviously a lower tech clone, but I wouldn't confuse people by calling it Avitron v3.0. Especially since XTim (the actual avitron maker) is developing a more powerful, and I assume bigger, bird to be released next year that may rightly be called Avitron v3.0

- DaVinci's Brainchild[/

Mobilize your sense of humor my friend!
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Old Jul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM
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I was just saying the title of this thread is misleading. While it doesn't bother me in the least that AirHogs is making a version of the avitron, I'm sure Edwin Van Ruymbeke isn't laughing when you call it version #3 of his ornithopter.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVinciBrainchld View Post
Sorry I didn't realize this was a comedy club. I was just saying the title of this thread is misleading. While it doesn't bother me in the least that AirHogs is making a knock-off of the avitron, I'm sure Edwin Van Ruymbeke isn't laughing when you call it version #3 of his ornithopter. Mobilize a small amount of respect for an innovator and one of his small creations.
I feel bad when Robert Musters work gets stolen, as I felt bad when Sean Kinkade's work was stolen, and while this may be a "toy", I still feel bad for Ruymbeke too.
We spend years creating our ornithopters, it's a labor of love, and no one should have their work plagerized. As an artist I understand what it feels like... and I feel bad when I see it. That's all. Just speaking from the heart.
Interesting how you will feel if it's going on with Edwin's agreement and initiative .AirHogs is an reputable company and I didn't believe they will dare to do it by the widely popular here way.
Today you can buy 250 GB. SSD drive ( real high tech ) for the price of Edwin's highly overpriced toy .Fire wing isn't a copy ,it's rebranded real Avitron with the same low tech inside .As you can see from the link even my speculation about the price was correct
http://blog.zoolert.com/2014/04/30/f.../#.U9jChMu9KSM

Sorry if I've hurt your feelings in some way. We actually agree on what is the right way to do everything, not only ornithopters.

Respect to you and success Z
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 08:34 AM
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I'm not gonna argue tech. What was once high tech becomes low tech. Time has a way of diminishing things.
Your speculation about the price was correct, of course, since air hogs is a big operation vs Edwin's small business. Or maybe they just copied the cheaper Avitron rc2.4g, which is kinda what it looks like.
But a rebranded actual Avitron v2.0 or v3.0?? Doesn't seem likely.
However, If Edwin's making money off it good for him... No GREAT for him!
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 09:09 AM
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Honestly, I hope you're right. I hope Edwin is making a boat load of money off of this. Then he can finance an even better 5th bird in the Avitron family!
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Old Jul 31, 2014, 09:31 AM
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win-win > Edwin!

I was at the Nürnberg Toy Show two years ago, my bird Kiki was flying around with the Avitron V2.0's to everyone's delight as Kiki would announce: "get ready, get set ..." and the he would GO up after the Avi's!

A man next to me enjoyed the show, we chatted and he introduced himself: aTOP Spin Master exec! I actually knew his name and he knew of me, but we'd never met nor interacted.

After months of negotiation, my understanding is that apparently Edwin finally licensed his wonderful toy design and is receiving proper compensation from Spin Master!

An XTIM chief told me that the Spin Master V.ersion works "OK"!

So that is a great outcome for the mass-mkt, for Edwin, for Spin Master..... and I am still stuck on my highly precise [when adjusted & trimmed] "real" Avitron V1.0's and V2.0's [I now have 2 of each!!].

For my main use, which is entertaining and instructing Kiki in my small livingroom, as well as showing him EXACTLY where to fly outside, etc., [and flying closely around amazed onlookers, even circling their heads], the super-prescision of Edwin's own-produced V1.0 and V2.0 are exactly what I need and will continue to use.

.... but I would still definitely recommend the Spin Master V.ersion to those with lower requirements or abilities [sure, and I readily admit to being a fusspot when it comes to RC flight].


L+K
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Old Jul 31, 2014, 09:43 AM
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.... by "precision" I mean for ex. that my four current examples of Edwin's own-produced Avitrons have less than 0.5 mm servo deadband at the output arm to the wing-attachment, something not needed by most kids

L
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Old Jul 31, 2014, 10:37 AM
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Thank you very much xlcrlee for clearing some things up! I can understand why Edwin would be reluctant to license one of his Avitron designs. I've been in that position before and it's a tough decision. But GREAT for him, this should fund his bigger and better designs. Which is also great for all of us. :-). I'm also glad he is not being ripped off. I apologize to Spin Master and I will amend my previous comments.
So, just to clear up the title of this thread - do you know which Avitron model is being lisenced?? It looks like,( and sounds like from your comments) they are reproducing the cheaper and more kid friendly Avitron rc2.4g model. Is that fair to say??
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 07:52 AM
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Sorry, i didn't bother to ask.

But I know that the longer top cooling hole and the four side vents indicate V2.0 .... as do the wings in the box photo > http://blog.zoolert.com/2014/04/30/f.../#.U9jChMu9KSM

Knowing that Edwin is far more of a "fusspot" than me when it comes to engineering & production of his products, and as an engineer + physicist myself, also w/ an MBA in Prodn. Mgmt,. and following the old Physics saying that "you get Nothing for Nothing" [0 = 0], I surmise that the Spin Master V.ersion might be a bit heavier and more powerful to overcome possible mass-mkt. looser tolerances. I base that on observation that the sample Fire Wing in the video has the tail in a high position -- and while that may be to make videoing easier! -- yet does not seem to be flying particularily slow nor in a very nose-high position.

But that is [almost] pure speculation, and I put logic in the backseat and prefer to see the actual product perform.

As a counter example, all four of my V1.0 & V2.0 Avitrons can fly with tail position 3 in a ca. 15° bank doing continuous 10'/3+m diameter circles at a bit more than half-throttle. But THEIR instruction sheet admonishes "This is not a toy!"

L



B.t.w., I've been trimming wings w/o alu tip weights by carefully peeling back and removing the plastic reinforcing piece at the rear wing root, adding a micro amount of UHU Por and moving the attachment point around 1mm outboard to tighten a looser, more slack wing. The Avitron will turn away from the slacker wing in a glide, as that wing has a steeper neg angle [T.E. up more] and the resultingly more fwd-tipped lift vector creates the glide yaw. Of course check that the wing is not TOO tight and that the steering function still works!
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 08:19 AM
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you get what you pay for*

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTEX View Post
...
Today you can buy 250 GB. SSD drive ( real high tech ) for the price of Edwin's highly overpriced toy ....
I beg to differ: if you have read and come to believe all the many posts I've made about Edwin's wonderful V1.0 and V2.0, you will see that I consider the cost to be well worth what you get, w.r.t. performance and life-cycle.

The Fire Wing has to have a different mfg. process to allow its success in the mass-mkt, also because much larger Spin Master has more corporate costs to cover.

These are similar but different items for different markets and user-groups.

Each with its own worth and value [who would use a Ferrari just to go shopping at Wal-Mart?]. I DO know which item I'd give to a small wild child and which to an adult aircraft aficionado!


Lee


* not always, but in my expert opinion, definitely in this case.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcrlee View Post
I beg to differ: if you have read and come to believe all the many posts I've made about Edwin's wonderful V1.0 and V2.0, you will see that I consider the cost to be well worth what you get, w.r.t. performance and life-cycle.

The Fire Wing has to have a different mfg. process to allow its success in the mass-mkt, also because much larger Spin Master has more corporate costs to cover.

These are similar but different items for different markets and user-groups.

Each with its own worth and value [who would use a Ferrari just to go shopping at Wal-Mart?]. I DO know which item I'd give to a small wild child and which to an adult aircraft aficionado!


Lee


* not always, but in my expert opinion, definitely in this case.
Very well said Lee. As an artist I was taught to be extremely observant, and cosmetic similarities aside there is something slightly different about the firewing. Something maybe less v2.0 like and a bit more rc2.4g like... not sure.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 12:22 PM
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The purpose of this thread was to inform the people about this "new" product mixed with piece of humor not to measure something!
Who will license his own product if it's sales as a fresh baked bread?
I am not an artist nor top physicist ,aerodinamicist don't know personally top executives and don't have an Ferrari so there is no such a problem to shop at Wal-Mart sometimes when this is convenient for me.
In the same time my house is a bit more expensive than average Ferary is. We use two cars that no needs of gas in everyday use and I have high speed Internet access at home so no need to visit public librarry for such a purposes. In the moment I'm writing from an Ipad tablet with two cameras and have no idea actually how many additionall cameras at home I have.
I'm laughing every time when some expert try to convince me that an ornithopter without pitch control with bang-bang stearing ,with brushed motors and not exchangeable battery ,with RX not compatible with some of the major 2.4GHz protocols is an hobby grade product and is far more then other similar toys on the market in the range of $ 30.
I wold recommend both of you guys to buy additionally few more of those marvels until they aren't discontinued yet.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 12:50 PM
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Every "New Product" thread on here, like other threads, is made up of a discussion, and or debate. We typically measure and disect everything while sharing knowledge. I thought that was the way of the forum, if not the purpose of the forum. My sincere apologies.
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