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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:06 PM
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IF the US ceases export of 400,000 barrels

Will the global price of oil be less than it otherwise would be?

Or will it be higher than it otherwise would be?
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:17 PM
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At the very least, the price at the pump would drop. That is always the case if a surplus develops. And right now, our surplus of refined petroleum is being exported.

With the export of refined petroleum, we are competing with nations who have a lack of refining capability. They can't get it at any price without us exporting it to them. Our exporting to them actually lowers their cost, but increases our own at the same time. The law of supply and demand is a beatch.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
At the very least, the price at the pump would drop. That is always the case if a surplus develops.
Yet we're told producing more oil will not result in a price lower than it would otherwise be because oil is priced on a world market.

So if we follow your logic for this argument, then drilling in the US would do what we're told it can't do...lower prices to lower than they would otherwise be without it.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Yet we're told producing more oil will not result in a price lower than it would otherwise be because oil is priced on a world market.
Oil is priced on the world market. Refined petroleum is not. Most refined petroleum is used in the country of refinement.

Quote:
So if we follow your logic for this argument, then drilling in the US would do what we're told it can't do...lower prices to lower than they would otherwise be without it.
Drilling will lower the price, but only if the surplus isn't hoarded to raise the price, and then only if the increase in supply exceeds the comfot zone of the speculators. A few precent increase in supply will only make them sniff. That's because the world is growing, not shrinking, and markets are emerging which will consume the excess. Some small percentage of those emerging markets will pay at least as much as everyone else will for the product.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:28 PM
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Goat, that was almost too easy.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:30 PM
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Thank you. I decided to have a go at destroying these inane arguments one at a time. Watching the one sided misrepresentation of how markets actually function would be rather entertaining, if it wasn't so appalling that people actually vote and make political judgements based on the atrocious logic displayed....and in the process harm not only themselves, but everyone the law they support touches.

In one of the other threads a poster actually contends that speculators control where the supply they bid on delivery of, is stored. Apparently, a bidder for a price at a future time is also in control of the location oil before it's even delivered, in that case, to be 'held offshore' or somesuch to boost the price. And of course, the understood premise here is to support *political* control of market supply. We all know how pure and unspoiled politicians with no actual personal fiscal or legal liability for their distortions, are.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Thought Investors.com had an interesting article this weekend about the oil and refined oil being exported.

"Blame For High Oil Prices Is Misplaced— Even By Conservatives"

http://news.investors.com/article/60...igh-prices.htm

sample from the article:

...The U.S. imports about 8.4 million barrels of crude oil a day, down from about 11 million barrels when demand was higher and domestic production lower. That imported crude is then refined, a manufacturing process in which the U.S. is the world leader — China is second, refining about half of the U.S. level.

The U.S. exports almost no crude oil, just 0.3% of our stock. We do, however, export refined oil products — about 3 million barrels a day. Only about 20% of those refined exports is gasoline that can be used for cars. The other 80% is composed of various oil products and byproducts — e.g., diesel, kerosene and heavy fuel oil — some of which is unusable or unwanted here because of environmental laws and other reasons....
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiana_Geoff View Post
Goat, that was almost too easy.
He is very good
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Will the global price of oil be less than it otherwise would be?

Or will it be higher than it otherwise would be?
400,000 barrels of what, exactly?

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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:41 PM
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That was funny. Hook, line and sinker...
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Will the global price of oil be less than it otherwise would be?

Or will it be higher than it otherwise would be?
Per what? Day? Year?
We are currently exporting about 1.7 million barrels of oil/ oil products per day. If reduced by 400,000 barrels it would bring us back to Bush-era 2006 where we were exporting about 1.3 million barrels per day.

I doubt 400,000 barrels would make a significant impact on world market prices. Of course, you don't say if we stopped producing by this amount or simply produced it and didn't export it.

Once again a totally vague and mindless troll post.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pipemajor View Post
Per what? Day? Year?
We are currently exporting about 1.7 million barrels of oil/ oil products per day. If reduced by 400,000 barrels it would bring us back to Bush-era 2006 where we were exporting about 1.3 million barrels per day.

I doubt 400,000 barrels would make a significant impact on world market prices. Of course, you don't say if we stopped producing by this amount or simply produced it and didn't export it.

Once again a totally vague and mindless troll post.
Exactly!
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:51 PM
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Once again a totally vague and mindless troll post.
So this is what you say when there is no defense? The post was/is fantastic and the logic impecable.

You can't win so you result to name calling.

The Democrat argument against the pipeline is that supply has nothing to do with demand since it is a world market. So, if we quit exporting product the amount here will rise, ergo, it should not affect the price.

Yet, now we are being told that it will.

Everyone, take that unecessary trip. Burn all of the petroleum you can. Crank up the heat and turn down the AC. Pay a little more now to avoid an America with Barrack Hussein for the next 4 years.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
400,000 barrels of what, exactly?

Another poster in another thread, and numerous posters in other threads, claim drilling will not matter because of exports.

Said poster used that number as an example. We can choose another and the basis of the argument remains the same...the idea that 'exports' somehow prevent extra production from lowering prices relative to what they would be absent the supply.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooroo View Post
So this is what you say when there is no defense? The post was/is fantastic and the logic impecable.

You can't win so you result to name calling.

The Democrat argument against the pipeline is that supply has nothing to do with demand since it is a world market. So, if we quit exporting product the amount here will rise, ergo, it should not affect the price.

Yet, now we are being told that it will.

Everyone, take that unecessary trip. Burn all of the petroleum you can. Crank up the heat and turn down the AC. Pay a little more now to avoid an America with Barrack Hussein for the next 4 years.
Bingo. We are told supply means nothing because it's a 'world price'. When I note the impact of exports on 'world price' then the argument moves again. This kind of analysis is part and parcel of why the left's economic arguments are the abysmal, self contradictory mess they are, as exemplified perfectly by the defenses which aren't, here.
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