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Old Mar 06, 2013, 03:53 AM
darn you, kakka carrot cake.
derpron's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Aug 2012
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would elevons work on a plane with a tail?

ive made a little depron thing that looks like a F16 but i dont want to use the tails elevator control surface for going up or down, instead i want to use the ailerons to do that, like a zagi wing.

anyone know if it would work?
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 04:41 AM
Teddy Ong
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I suppose it would work less, since the pivoting FxD is smaller.

Why don't you want to use the tail anyway?
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 04:45 AM
darn you, kakka carrot cake.
derpron's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ong View Post
I suppose it would work less, since the pivoting FxD is smaller.

Why don't you want to use the tail anyway?
well its a pusher and the motor and prop is in the way of the elevator so i would have to use 2 separate servos and elevator control surfaces on either side.

i would rather just use 2 servos instead of 4

but just elevons WILL work?
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 05:03 AM
Teddy Ong
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It will work. But the amount of pitch/roll you get is surely less.

So fly in calm weathers
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 05:10 AM
darn you, kakka carrot cake.
derpron's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
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Originally Posted by Teddy Ong View Post
It will work. But the amount of pitch/roll you get is surely less.

So fly in calm weathers
hmmmmmmmmmmmm would making huge control surfaces overcome that?

thanks fo ye help
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 05:24 AM
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Australia, ACT, Kambah
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Unlikely to work well for pitch - you will get some pitch effect from symmetrically deflected ailerons, but the presumably fixed tail will provide a big dampening and stabilising effect you would not have with a flying wing.

An alternate option is to set it up with tailerons, ie a servo for each elevator, programmed the same as a delta, and not bother with ailerons on the wings.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 05:25 AM
Teddy Ong
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Yes. In fact, that would be good.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 05:26 AM
Teddy Ong
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Originally Posted by Teddy Ong View Post
Yes. In fact, that would be good.
Edit: tailerons are even nicer, and make then big.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 05:33 AM
darn you, kakka carrot cake.
derpron's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
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Originally Posted by scirocco View Post
Unlikely to work well for pitch - you will get some pitch effect from symmetrically deflected ailerons, but the presumably fixed tail will provide a big dampening and stabilising effect you would not have with a flying wing.

An alternate option is to set it up with tailerons, ie a servo for each elevator, programmed the same as a delta, and not bother with ailerons on the wings.
okay then thanks.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 08:13 AM
miniture aircraft pilot
rcshirt's Avatar
United States, FL, Tampa
Joined Oct 2007
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well i guess i must have a unique plane.. my F-16, F-22, and f-15 fly with elevons only. and so do a lot of turbine jets.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 09:17 AM
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United States, NE, Kearney
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Originally Posted by colj00 View Post
well its a pusher and the motor and prop is in the way of the elevator so i would have to use 2 separate servos and elevator control surfaces on either side.

i would rather just use 2 servos instead of 4

but just elevons WILL work?
It is possible and frequently done to tie 2 push-rods to one servo located along the mid-line ahead of the stab.

(For some reason, this technique used for decades has become a lost art).
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 10:10 AM
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United States, CA, Oakland
Joined Dec 2002
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Hey now,
This goes a bit round about so bear with me please.
On my freestyle/3D planes and old ukie stunters I have my ailerons set up so they move in concert with the elevators. I set them up on a switch so they can move either in concert or contra the direction of the elevators. So if I give up elevator I get up flaps. Get it? Good. Now once in a great while for various reasons my elevator may fail and I'll have no control in pitch.
In those cases I've flipped the switch and run the flaps in concert and had no trouble bringing the plane back home.
It's sloppy. It's not nearly as responsive. But it does work.
Still I wouldn't do it on a slow and/or airbatic plane. Something high speed it may just be enough but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Now on the several F-16 ish planes I've built and flown, along with other jet shapes I've used tailerons. Those work very well. Nicely responsive and clean and tight. The only downside is untill you learn to compensate rolls are a bit barrely. But you can overcome that with practice.
RobII
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 01:01 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcshirt View Post
...and so do a lot of turbine jets.
I'd be interested if you could name a couple? There are a number of jet models that use 'tailerons' for elevator and roll but I don't know of any that have a conventional tail and get away with only elevons?

Yes it might work after a fashion on something like the F22 where the wing TE is right back near the tail, but on an F16 that is a slightly more conventional layout I cant see it working very well at all.


Bottom line is that too be most effective the elevators want to be as far back as you can get them, and that usually means that the elevator should go on the tail.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 01:08 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
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That almost sounds like canards... but I don't know how much authority you'd get out of ailerons that are acting only as elevators.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 01:55 PM
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Chicago, IL
Joined Dec 2006
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I haven't seen it done, but maybe you could do elevons that also link to the tailerons, using a pushrod on each side. It would sort of be like having a biplane with quad ailerons that are linked top and bottom with a pushrod linkage.... except instead of doubling up on ailerons you are doubling up on elevons. So you are still only using 2 servos. And you could even get different rates by mechanically connecting the pushrods on the tailerons to shorter hole in the control arm.... the tailerons will have more deflection than the elevons.
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