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Old Sep 15, 2014, 11:07 PM
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Hots Question

Does anyone know how the original Dan Santich designed Hots, as it appeared in Model Airplane News, compares with the Midwest Hots kit?

I'm specifically interested in the fuselage length and vertical tail shape. I built the Midwest version years ago and I believe it was significantly shorter than the aircraft depicted on the MAN plans page. The Vertical Tail also appears to have a longer chord.

If I purchased the MAN plan would it be different from the Midwest plan?
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 12:33 AM
supreme being of leisure
ZAGNUT's Avatar
Tel Aviv, Israel
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which midwest version? the one piece or the "hotsII" with removable wing?

the one piece is the same as the original Santich design. the hotsII has a longer tail but might look shorter because the fuselage is much taller in the middle. it is also around 3/4" wider to accommodate the wing dowels and still leave room for a fuel tank...basically they turned a ~3lb. flying dream into a 4.5lb. pig with bad manners.

best tip for building a hots is to keep the fuselage sides straight instead of bowed from the trailing edge to the tail. makes doing the turtle deck so much easier. either use the score and crack method with a bit of reinforcement or a couple of boards and small clamps that stay in place until the bottom is sheeted and a couple of cross ties are put in place on top.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 01:06 AM
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The original one piece. I doubt they are exactly the same. I wish I had a picture of the Midwest Hots from the same perspective as the plans picture I posted. I think you'd see the difference almost immediately.

I remember mine was a hand full to taxi. The rudder was setup for maximum throw which resulted in the tail wheel also being maxed out. Being comparably short coupled didn't help. A little bump of the rudder gimbal would send it darting off to one side or the other. Take-off was never a problem because it wasn't on the ground for very long. Fun times.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 07:29 AM
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United States, FL, Winter Haven
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Patrick,
The MAN plan (which I have, with the article) is a 48" WS and right around 29~30" fuselage. The Midwest kit has a longer fuselage, and the HotII is even larger. I never had one back when they were all the rave in the 80's, so I built a few when I can back to flying in the early 2000's. Neat flying airplane! Would love to try a thinner airfoil on it...

Scott Smith
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 04:05 PM
supreme being of leisure
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Tel Aviv, Israel
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i should have all three plans somewhere so i'll have to dig them out to see what's what...

never used a tail wheel on all the ones i built...too much work for a plane that might not survive more than two flights what did help was to turn the LG around backwards and to bend in about 2 deg. of toe in. that and a tall tail skid made it manageable. no expo back in the day but that would help too.

there is also a good way of attaching the tail wheel that cuts down the travel: instead of running the wire up along the hinge line bend it back 90 deg at the top of the bracket just like a tiller on a boat....move the bracket forward maybe 3/4" and then put a small dowel in the rudder 3/4" back from the hinge line. hook a rubber band around the tiller and up to the dowel. your tail wheel now has half the movement of the rudder and the servo doesn't take a beating.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAGNUT View Post
i should have all three plans somewhere so i'll have to dig them out to see what's what...

never used a tail wheel on all the ones i built...too much work for a plane that might not survive more than two flights what did help was to turn the LG around backwards and to bend in about 2 deg. of toe in. that and a tall tail skid made it manageable. no expo back in the day but that would help too.

there is also a good way of attaching the tail wheel that cuts down the travel: instead of running the wire up along the hinge line bend it back 90 deg at the top of the bracket just like a tiller on a boat....move the bracket forward maybe 3/4" and then put a small dowel in the rudder 3/4" back from the hinge line. hook a rubber band around the tiller and up to the dowel. your tail wheel now has half the movement of the rudder and the servo doesn't take a beating.
don't supose you had the build manual for this as well? wife found it at a thrift store, un built, but no build manual book thing.

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Old Sep 16, 2014, 04:45 PM
supreme being of leisure
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nice find!

only super hots i had was the one piece from the plans. that being a "success series" kit means everything should be pre-shaped so no extensive carving to do.

build it light, use dual aileron servos, put in a very strong .60 or go up to a light weight .90 and that is one of the sweetest planes ever. smoother and less hectic than the hots.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 04:59 PM
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Thanks!

Its going on the shelf for a little while, I am not ready to attempt to fly this, and if i build it, i would try to fly it.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 05:12 PM
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despite the name and the looks it is a very easy plane to fly, even easier than a lot of trainers. throttled back it is a real floater with no bad habits.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 12:01 AM
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Long Tail Hots?

All,

The two posted pictures show what I'm seeing.

The Midwest plans show the distance from the wing (aileron) trailing edge to the horizontal tail leading edge (at the fuselage) is approximately one wing chord. Note the almost equal red lines.

In the second picture, from the MAN plans page, the yellow line shows approximately one wing chord from the wing trailing edge. Note the distance to the horizontal tail looks closer to 1.75 or 2 wing chords. Yes. I know it is a perspective view and the measurements are not true. Nonetheless, I believe the conclusion is accurate.

I know it's common for kit manufacturers to tweak a design for production. I suspect the fuselage length was shortened. I also suspect the fuselage was made deeper to make more room for radio equipment and to enhance knife edge flight.

So this brings me back around to my original question; is the fuselage of the MAN plans set actually longer?

Thanks for your replies. I really like the one about gearing down the tailwheel. That's helpful on all tail draggers.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 12:39 AM
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that may very well be a photo of a prototype that somehow made it into the build article. i'm gonna look at the plans today even though i'm pretty sure the only difference between the two is in material types used on the fuselage.

....and, you could always just add a couple of inches to the tail of the hots. wouldn't hurt anything and would make it handle a bit more like the super hots
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 01:48 PM
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i found less than 1/8" difference in tail length between the two, chalk it up to paper and humidity.

the midwest hots is a dead nuts copy of the original in all dimensions including fuselage width. only differences are the use of lite-ply for the fuselage sides and the F3 former on the midwest is perpendicular to the centerline while the original has it perpendicular to the bottom of the fus, either way the "peak" is kept in the same place. oh, and for the first time i notices some weirdness on the MAN plans at the nose...the break between the fus side and angled top is moved up maybe 1/2" from the centerline to allow the tank to sit higher. never actually see one built like this.

so if you already have the midwest plans you may as well use them or get them from outerzone. only thing missing is the formers but if someone can't figure them out in less than a minute they have no business building from plans in the first place...

and a couple of changes i always used when building these: use balsa for the sides instead of lite-ply, add 1/4" or 3/8" to the ailerons and elevator, 1/2" or more to the rudder, dual aileron servos (think flaps mixed to elevator!), shear webs all the way out, and the big weight and time saver: instead of using huge lumber for the leading edge just make the ribs with a round nose and wrap the sheeting all the way around.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 03:24 PM
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HotsII

Hots II

RCM plan is available.
Pictures of a few paint colour schemes.

Post #321 pictures
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...233857&page=22

comments
Post #339
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...233857&page=23
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 04:09 PM
supreme being of leisure
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Tel Aviv, Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
Hots II

My friend had the initial Hots. It was about 3.5 lbs and flew beautifully. I had the kit version II by Midwest. I used the plans and copied the kit. First flights were with a ST .40, which were nice (gentle). Later flights with the Irvine .40 and pipe. I had a lot of trouble with take offs then if I wasn't gentle on the throttle. Very easy to ground loop. Mine weighed probably 5 lbs and was too heavy. The LG alone was about 12 oz, way too heavy. In the air with power, great. Loose the engine and the glide was like 30 degrees, not nice.
Any changes? Keep it light, under 4lbs.
that's the difference between the one piece and the hotsII. at 3.5lbs it is great and with a lot of care you can get it down to 3lbs where it is awesome. with enough power (YS 45 with pipe) takeoffs are as easy as slamming the throttle forward and 5 feet later you're already going vertical....no time for it to do anything bad on the ground

the fat hots (hots II) just can't be built down to those weights and even with lots of power it just doesn't have enough wing to launch and do what the original can.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 11:39 PM
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Thanks ZAGNUT. I agree with your conclusion that the picture used for the MAN plans is probably of the prototype.

If I build another, I'll extend the fuselage accordingly and possibly lower the fuselage profile too. Although it was fun to fly, I always thought it appeared too stubby. The Hots II always appeared too pointy for my taste. I know, I know, I'm picky....
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