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Old Sep 25, 2012, 03:59 PM
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United States, MO, Manchester
Joined Nov 2010
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Sailaire ribs?

is there anyone producing a rib set for the Sailaire? or am I going to have to do it the old fashioned way

Tried Mountain Models and they don't show it on the website. Not for production, I only need one set to rebuild my pig.

Paul
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 07:44 PM
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I'll have to look in my template file.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 09:35 PM
Fly It Like You Stole It !!
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United States, MA, Pittsfield
Joined Sep 2011
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I'll look in the attic over my garage tomorrow. I know I had a full set of ribs and a fiberglass fuse (the front half) there from like 15 years ago pushed off in the corner. You're welcome to them if I can find them.

Murph
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 10:49 AM
Fly It Like You Stole It !!
Paulbilbo91z9f's Avatar
United States, MA, Pittsfield
Joined Sep 2011
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Got Them...

Looked in the attic and you're in luck.

I have a set of Sailaire ribs w/the carbon-fiber tubes and steel joiner rods.

The rib set has one complete wing, (half Left side or Right side) and the other half is missing maybe the first 8 or 10 ribs. You can take the root ribs from the complete side and make the ones that are missing from the other side. (Used them to make a repair section years ago.)

I don't want any money. Just send me your address and I'll mail them out to you.

Murph
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 01:28 PM
Jackass of many Trades
USA, UT, Pleasant Grove
Joined Feb 2007
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Wow! If the OP dosen't take them i would appreciate a chance at those.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 07:53 PM
Fly It Like You Stole It !!
Paulbilbo91z9f's Avatar
United States, MA, Pittsfield
Joined Sep 2011
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Sorry. Only have the one set and dam lucky to find that. Maybe somone else out there has an old partial kit that they can let you have the ribs out of.

Hope you Find Them. Good Luck!

Murph
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Thanks

Murph
Ribs & parts arrived in excellent shape. Thank you very much.

Curious, this thread raised some interest in the SailAire.

Does anyone know who owns the rights to the plane/plans now? Or is it maybe old enough that it is now in the public domain?

Would be kind of nice if plans/parts were still available in short kits

Paul
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 05:27 AM
Fly It Like You Stole It !!
Paulbilbo91z9f's Avatar
United States, MA, Pittsfield
Joined Sep 2011
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Great

Glad to hear that the ribs made it to you without being crushed. You never know about thoes packages that are about the size of a football. (At least that's how some of them look when they arrive from the Postal Service... )

I don't know anymore about the manufacturing rights than you. I was fairly sure that any product became public knowledge after 30 years. Maybe someone out there knows where the dies and master sheet for the plans ended up.

Here in New England we finally got a sunny day. (Rain and clouds for almost 2 weeks. If not rain, then LOTS of wind.) I worked through my lunch and got out for about an hour and a half late afternoon. Not much thermal activity with the ground being so wet, just small bubbles, but it was nice to feel the sun on your face for a change.

So Paul, Good luck with the parts and don't forget to e-mail me or post up a picture of the Sailaire when you get her put back together. I'd love to see it.


Good Flying,

Murph
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 04:09 PM
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You know, it humbles me every time I read a thread like this. Good folks helping each other out. Good on ya, Murph!
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:54 PM
Fly It Like You Stole It !!
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United States, MA, Pittsfield
Joined Sep 2011
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What Goes Around....

Dwells,

You know, What goes around, comes around. I had a BOT (Bird of Time) that had a radio glitch this summer and went straight into a tree from about 1,000 feet. The center section of the wing was wrecked, but the balance of the plane was okay.

I put it up here on RC Groups and asked if anyone had a center section for a BOT wing. A gentleman from New York sent me one he had lying around, no charge!

If a set of Sailair ribs I've had sitting around for 25+ years can make someone else's day brighter, then God Bless.

Yes, There are still good people in the world.

Happy Flying,

Murph
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulbilbo91z9f View Post
Yes, There are still good people in the world.

Happy Flying,

Murph
Agreed, and much more good than bad in my estimate. It's a real shame that the major medias only air the bad news. Life on planet earth may be different if they only aired the good .
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:00 PM
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United States, IN, Fort Wayne
Joined Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulProe View Post
Murph
Ribs & parts arrived in excellent shape. Thank you very much.

Curious, this thread raised some interest in the SailAire.

Does anyone know who owns the rights to the plane/plans now? Or is it maybe old enough that it is now in the public domain?

Would be kind of nice if plans/parts were still available in short kits

Paul
Paul,

Bill Warren owns the mfg rights to the Sailaire and most of the Airtronics kit line.
He has been very protective of his investment when others have tried to encroach on his ownership.

Ray
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 07:18 AM
I like Golden Age
Minnesota
Joined Apr 2007
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People having the rights to old RC designs is mostly BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Hayes View Post
Paul,

Bill Warren owns the mfg rights to the Sailaire and most of the Airtronics kit line.
He has been very protective of his investment when others have tried to encroach on his ownership.

Ray
Sky Bench ... Woodys Forever
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The rights would only extend to a copy right of the print. And that copyright has to be registered to be enforced. It would be on the Sailaire print and it is not, so I doubt very much it is a "registered" copyright.
Definitely the "design" is not protected. He would need a design patent and because the construction layout of the Sailaire follows fairly standard RC technique I can guarantee there is no design patent. In addition, design patents are extremely expensive and time consuming to get. You have to show that your design is very unique from designs in the public domain. The Sailaire would not qualify.

All one has to do is draw up their own set of prints and build instructions. The changes only have to be modest.

Furthermore, even if you received a cease and desist, you can just ignore it. It costs a bundle to actually enforce a cease and desist, and the buden to prove that your design infringes on the original copyrighted plan has to be proven by the copyright holder. Again, very expensive, and they would lose anyway if you drew up your own prints.

A ton of great RC designs are out there in limbo because of scare tactics by someone who has "the rights to the design". Thats crap, plain and simple. They have a copyright to a print, not to a "design" per se.

Spending a half hour with copyright/patent attorney for $150 bucks will teach you allot and put to bed all those myths out there.

Oh, and there can be no such thing as manufacturing rights unless there is a design patent. I know that there is no design patents for the airtronics line simply because the patent numbers do not appear on the kits or the prints.

Trust me on this. If you go through all the efforts and cost to get a design patent, YOU WILL put it on your product. The term "patent pending" is also abused. The patent office discourages the use of that term even if you are applying for a patent. Its not a legally binding term and the patent office will tell you so. Again, the term should be followed by the patent application number. Number not there? That's because the majority of "patent pendings" are just a scare tactic people use.

Bill Warren cant even get the designs he "has the rights to" patented or protected. Its way too late. Once a design, on paper or physical, is in the public domain for one year without a patent, it can not be patented. And most interesting is that the public domain has been defined (through a court case) as just one person. So that design you have been privately holding onto for three years? You cant get a patent on it. (obviously most people lie to get around that one).

You can also search for the existing copyrights, patents, and pending patents online. The patent office will also personally help you with this.
http://www.uspto.gov/video/cbt/ptrcsearching/
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 11:45 AM
Sailaire brethren
United States, KY, Bowling Green
Joined Aug 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Hayes View Post
Paul,

Bill Warren owns the mfg rights to the Sailaire and most of the Airtronics kit line.
He has been very protective of his investment when others have tried to encroach on his ownership.

Ray
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Wish you could get those rights. I am happy that someone was willing to sell me a dream catcher kit of sailaire for my winter build but I miss the airtronics line too. Those were fun planes power and glider
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 12:18 PM
I like Golden Age
Minnesota
Joined Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Winkle View Post
Wish you could get those rights. I am happy that someone was willing to sell me a dream catcher kit of sailaire for my winter build but I miss the airtronics line too. Those were fun planes power and glider
As stated above, no one can get exclusive rights any longer. The designs are public domain unless they were design patented, which I doubt very much they were. In any case, I believe those patents would have run out after 14 years.

The printed matter (prints) are copyrighted. However, you can draw up your own prints with minor variations and get past the copyright. Do you really think all those plans and kits for model Piper Cubs received permission from Piper Aircraft?

Have you ever built a Sig Cub and a Goldberg Cub? Seriously. They are practically identical as an RC "design". Minor variations is all you need, plus your own prints.

Have you ever built an Olympic wing and a Windrifter wing? The difference is minimal. That is all it has to be, minimal. Craft Air and Airtronics never went after each other for what is almost the same model sailplane.

At one point there must have been prints in our hobby for at least 4 funscale mustangs in the .40 size range. The layout and construction techniques on all of them were basically the same. No one ever had a lawsuit.
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