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Old Aug 02, 2014, 09:47 PM
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United States, IN, Muncie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GooberSB View Post
I would see what the servo arms offer first. If there is a hole at 14mm then use that hole. If not, use one that is between 13mm and 14.5mm from the center.

Also, you could go back to the 3X2000 fw v 2.3 and use the programmer to set the cyclic gains instead of the pots. I have a CopterX 500 fbl with a 3x2000 on it and flew it just this afternoon so I don't forget how to fly helis.

On my 450s in a fuselage I connect the usb dongle before mounting the frame into the fuselage and leave it there.
I thought about doing that, but my concern is how flaky this last 3x2000 I have seems. I had it on a 450 for a while, and just could not get it dialed in at all. The airframe was as close to mechanically perfect as I could get it without having custom parts for the tail cnc machined.

There may be a possibility that there is something wrong with the unit I have, because it took a nasty fall off the workbench when it was new out of the package. I kind of knocked it off the shelf from 5 ft up and it hit the concrete floor in my garage and bounced. It still works, but It has never held like my old one did.

I wasn't aware of a 2.3 FW. I went straight from 2.1 to 2.4 when I updated my old one.
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Old Aug 16, 2014, 02:03 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
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I'm an impatient idiot sometimes and a crybaby.
I had a slight (and I mean slight) bend in my main shaft toward the top from a previous blade strike while testing it was hard to see and way up toward the top.
Changed the shaft and it flew awesome.
Piroettes in both directions smooth.
All at 50% throttle.
Cranked it up to 85% throttle and flew even more awesome.. for about 1 minute.
And then the plastic tail case exploded. (due to damage/hairline crack from previous testing.)
I was able to auto it from about 10 feet off the ground and set it down gently.
It was screaming and howling and spinning but it was a gentle set down with no further damage.
It was nice to finally after way more than a year see this thing work and work well.
I'm still really upset about the adjustments not working in software and only on the pots..
That's bullcrap!
But it flys..
One very important discovery I did indeed make is that when you turn the pots (at all)
The servos lurch!! like old times but only while you are turning the pots or slightly afterward.
I ALSO noticed this same exact behaviour while making any adjustments in software..
It's like the gyro goes into another part of it's software while adjustments are being made
and the servos always lurch a bit when it goes into this "programming routine" within it's own software... you get a servo lurch.
So when you adjust a pot the gyro apparently goes into the same part of it's programming to "program" itself whenever the pots change value and the servos give a little lurch.
What this means is that if the pots ever move on their own due to being loose in flight or vibration, you're
going to get one of these servo lurches for sure!
Bad design man bad.
:-)
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Old Aug 16, 2014, 01:36 PM
AMA 1046820
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United States, IN, Muncie
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I'm giving the one I have still one more chance. It's currently mounted on my Trex 500 ESP. Whether it stays there or not is up to its performance.

Unfortunately, I can't maiden it until My Esc finally gets here, or the BEC I ordered to use with my Scorpion 90A esc arrives. The ESC I ordered a month ago has been "Departed USPS facility, Chicago, IL) for 5 days now, and has not arrived.

The sad part? It has taken longer to move from Chicago to Muncie than it took to cross the ocean from China.

The BEC is a week out...

As a side note: Using Emax 9258 servos on cyclic for a 500E is a pain in the butt. They are taller than their futaba inspiration (case bottom), meaning one has to use the huge long servo balls, and the horns hit the canopy. Using the Align spacers in the servo mount kit makes the servos spaced correctly inside the frame, but places the arms too far out.

Had to use some washers on the front rubber canopy supports to push the canopy out a litte, as well as some spacers for the canopy pins. Then had to heat the canopy up, punch it out, and let it cool on the heli for a bit to reshape. It fits somewhat better now.

I had to cut some carbon fiber spacers for the servos, and they are a tad too thin. (Used a 450 pro frame that was cracked as the source material).
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Old Aug 18, 2014, 08:20 PM
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Well I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised with the 2000 on the 500!

After much tweaking to get my servo linkage geometry squared away, I finally got a chance to actually fly the heli a little bit.

The Soko Heli Tool helped immensely!

Anyway, I have all the gain pots set at middle, and for the initial re-maiden of this heli, I must say that it flies very smoothly with this gyro. I must add that This airframe will not see any 3D other than some sport flying. It's only being tested out before it goes into a Bell 222 fuselage.
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Old Aug 19, 2014, 09:27 AM
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That 500 looks awesome.
I did some mild 3D on my 450 it's not perfect or not as solid as the BeastX but it's not bad.
There's some strange interraction if I set the cyclic gain too high or 3/4 up I get tail
jumping about 30 deg. sudden jumps.
Turned it back down and the tail jumps are gone.
I'll try an get a video of some piros and inverted piro travel and flipping it.
There's still a little "something ain't quite right" going on, but it's flyable now.
Is any of the advnaced tuning (PID) still work in the software or did 2.4 completely do away
with any advanced tuning?

I'm still unclear on what the pots do and what does the tail pot do?
I'm setting tail gain on the transmitter.

Do you lose Just the P settings and still get I and D settings in the advanced part of the software?

This seems like a cluster%$^&
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Old Aug 19, 2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8LBV View Post
That 500 looks awesome.
I did some mild 3D on my 450 it's not perfect or not as solid as the BeastX but it's not bad.
There's some strange interraction if I set the cyclic gain too high or 3/4 up I get tail
jumping about 30 deg. sudden jumps.
Turned it back down and the tail jumps are gone.
I'll try an get a video of some piros and inverted piro travel and flipping it.
There's still a little "something ain't quite right" going on, but it's flyable now.
Is any of the advnaced tuning (PID) still work in the software or did 2.4 completely do away
with any advanced tuning?

I'm still unclear on what the pots do and what does the tail pot do?
I'm setting tail gain on the transmitter.

Do you lose Just the P settings and still get I and D settings in the advanced part of the software?

This seems like a cluster%$^&
As far as I have seen with 2.4 FW, you can still use all the PID gains. In fact, I am getting ready to make a few tweaks before heading out to the field in a couple of hours.

I still have some drifting and wobble issues going on with collective changes. Here's a really shaky test trim hover. My wife couldn't hold the camera still.

Almost lost it because I am running very little expo (15%) with a Deadband of 10% in the gyro. Gain pots are all at middle, Agility is at 35.

Head speed is about 2550 at 80% flat throttle in Idle up. I want to raise it a little more but I have to set the governor on the ESC first. Still messing with motor timings too.

I nearly dumped it because I had a slip of the thumb on the cyclic, but it pulled out nicely, and barked the blades a little at me.

Tail seems to be holding pretty well, but I really can't test it on climbout in my yard (small space). That and I do want to invert it and check settings that way too. With as little expo as I am running, and the deadbands set where they are, it's too responsive to really put it through the paces in the yard. This is the 5th pack through this build with this gyro on.

Trex 500 ESP Flybarless test hover (4 min 12 sec)
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Old Aug 19, 2014, 12:20 PM
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Just did a little tweaking to the PID gains. VAST improvement. Aileron and elevator. Tail i left alone but did adjust the Accel and decel values, and added a little cyclic and collective to tail comp. Smoothed things right out.

No video this time as I can't find my hat cam mount, and the wife was channelling Michael J. Fox in the last vid. I also forgot something extremely important! I had forgotten that I had taken the elevator pin out of the swash earlier to make some linkage adjustments, and failed to re threadlock it.

It was still tight after I came down, but I went ahead and applied some Loctite before I fly it again.

I think it's ready for the field.
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Old Aug 19, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Seems I have to adjust the tail i and d on all of mine. As well as the decel values. Cyclic is always ok for me.
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Old Aug 20, 2014, 08:41 AM
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That video looks smooth and straight as can be :-)
maybe a little too locked in :-)
A little lower heads peed than I'm used to.
So you can still adjust P I And D in software?
Then what are the pots doing exactly?
:-)
I thought on 2.4 they took something away in software and can only do *something* on the pots now.

Thanks.
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Old Aug 20, 2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by N8LBV View Post
That video looks smooth and straight as can be :-)
maybe a little too locked in :-)
A little lower heads peed than I'm used to.
So you can still adjust P I And D in software?
Then what are the pots doing exactly?
:-)
I thought on 2.4 they took something away in software and can only do *something* on the pots now.

Thanks.
The main gains are what the pots control. The ones for Ail, Ele, and Rud, on the main screen where you adjust agility.

The PID gain settings are separate.

The pots used to work as a fine tuning adjustment for small tweaks at the field after setting the gains in the software. I agree that removing the gain setting ability from the software in the newer firmware was a bad move.
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Old Aug 20, 2014, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GooberSB View Post
Seems I have to adjust the tail i and d on all of mine. As well as the decel values. Cyclic is always ok for me.
I've still got a little bounce in the tail on stops.

Hard to tell in this video though because I am running a lower headspeed than I normally do, and all my movements were slower on the sticks. This bird LOVES to jump away.

I am getting a little oscillation in wind, but I figure it's just because I haven't touched the gain pots yet. Without wind or very light breeze, it's smooth.
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Old Aug 21, 2014, 04:28 AM
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Adjusted the gain pots a little down, and hit a sweet spot on them. Bird is LOCKED IN.

One extra step I did take was to use 3M 4011 mounting tape.

I used 2 layers, then cut a 1/16" thick steel mounting plate. I mounted the plate to the top of the boom block, then added 2 more layers of the 3M 4011, and mounted the gyro.

Doing so reduced the vibrations to the gyro significantly, and only added a few grams of weight overall.

The mounting plate was cut from a bracket for a PSP store display surround I obtained from a previous job as a merchandising rep for video game stores. It worked a treat!
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Old Aug 21, 2014, 01:06 PM
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I'm glad you got it working the way you want. These fbl controllers are certainly not "connect and fly" but with patience they work well.

Unfortunately, the CX controllers are starting to look overpriced (see the kbar prices at BangGood)
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