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Old Mar 17, 2008, 09:46 PM
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Yeah thanks Frank for going ahead now. BW dimensions needed pronto. I really wonder about the flying differences of the Squirt and the nut ball given their two largest differences. One being the KF step on top and two being the carrying out of the tips to the edge like Gene's latest versions as opposed to this version that just needs the gear finished. The center only elevator section would seem to add weight more away from the tail perhaps which might help in balancing? I am not sold on the channeling effect that it does create without trying them both side by side. Can someone explain the benefit there.
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 12:06 AM
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Well, may be late now that Frank might have the new grail in hand, but I got this one above already to try except for cutting the control rods. Might get done tomorrow after the 10 hour day. I will be able to compare this to my other two completed squirts.
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 02:28 AM
Look outside the Square
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Gosford, Australia
Joined Jan 2006
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Looking Good Tymbre . Good Luck with the maiden

I have added a pic and a PDF of the Elevator Mod for those who want tighter Loops for their Sq2( Inside/Outside ) in Post 1. The Sq2 flys great without the mod but for those who want more its their if you want to add it.

I have linked the threads to the people I have THANKED in Post1. If I have missed anybody, give me a Yell .

B x
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Last edited by Boxhead; Mar 18, 2008 at 06:50 AM.
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 08:16 PM
Crash Master
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Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
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Whipped a majority of it out in a short time. Still have a few tests to do with the Square2-2 before it's relegated to donor status... when the rain and wind stops.


I screwed up, I cut a 17" square and then rounded the corners with a lid from a 4" diameter nut can. The drawing I did showed a 15" square, but what the heck 12" center square... KFm2 on the nose (6" =~27%), just double thick, so ~2% thick. then the dihedral tips and then the elevator. 2x4's under the center cection (top down) when dihedral was pinned down and glued, so ~ 1.5" dihedral each tip.

You can see the right thrust and down thrust I built in, per Frank's successful experiment. (~1/4" rise to the back on the HC 'Wonder Mounts' is about 5° and about 1/2 the width of the mount is about 3° on the side thrust ")

On with the show!
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 08:58 PM
Up in smoke!
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Greenville, TX
Joined Jun 2007
627 Posts
Man you build fast Gene,

That looks really nice. I think I like the diamond look better.

What is the HC Wonder Mount? I don't think I've ever come across that on there site.

BlueFFF
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 09:07 PM
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Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
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Heck, that's not fast, it must have taken an hour! Fiddling and Farting around and smacking my forehead, and revising the drawings, and re-thinking the Vstab / rudder... Now to search through the bone pile for a donor

Wonder Mounts: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=4862
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 09:07 PM
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Gene, as much as these want to rise, I put my motors under the wing to help pull down. Noticed that yours was on top. Just wondering...

Straight lines are easier to cut.
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 10:13 PM
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Actually, if we mounted the motor up on a pylon, the effect would be similar to down thrust... mounting it underneath has the opposite effect
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 11:02 PM
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Somebody told me the opposite somewhere. I always mount my motor as low as I can get it.!!! Live and learn.... Last Squirt (18.75) done tonight. I believe I am done testing for a while. Will let you masters figure out which is best diamond or circle and then build it. It has been fun.
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Old Mar 18, 2008, 11:46 PM
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Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
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See if this helps to understand why...


If the top mounted motor pulls forward, it forces the nose down. The bottom causes a push up.

You can stand a pencil up between your fingers and prove it, pushing it forward
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 12:08 AM
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That does make sense. I had my motor mount set and then moved it lower to make sure that I got a little extra down thrust. That tells my why I always tip my motor down more than 5% to keep from climbing. I have two levers fighting each other until the one that I want wins out.... I suppose.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 01:55 AM
Brit in Bahrain
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Bahrain
Joined Mar 2004
610 Posts
Frank,

Re the Hol...I mean, Nutball V.2. I need a flight report and photographs - the suspense is killing me !!!!!!!!

Nigel
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 11:24 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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United States, LA, New Orleans
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NutBall's gotta' fly Great... It's Round
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 09:08 PM
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My new Squirt flies well as well. I think I have come to a conclusion that needs some confirmation from y'all.

My intuition tells me it is more about my choice of motor and prop that I want to improve not the Squirt design. The tightness of my loops may not actually be the issue as much as the quickness of the looping manuever. When comparing the same wing area which I haven't calculated as I really don't do much math, I would guess that the squirt has more which would make it more floaty.

My differences though in motor between the 20" dart and the 18.75" squirt is this: 17g 1700Kv with 7x6 sf prop on the dart and 24g 1200Kv with 8x4 gws 8040 prop on the Squirt. Shouldn't the 17g motor at full throttle with a 7x6 be much zippier if in two identical planes? It was too windy for much testing. If it will only taxi into the wind and is being blown over on the ground it is a little windy for a small parking lot about the size of a tennis Court due to a tree in the center and houses across the street and a gymnasium on the other side. Small tight but slow loops is about all I got tested. One nice thing is the vertical hovering landing in that much breeze. Really perfectly acceptable flight given the wind. As shown in the old pics on the early March Squirt posts and the pics above, this one has quite a bit of elevator and rudder as well as more dihedral about 1.5" or so.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 10:13 PM
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Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
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That 7x6 may not be making as much thrust as the 8x4... The 8x4 is actually a lighter load on the same motor:

HXT 24g 'blue wonder' 1700
HXM2730-1700

HD 8x4, 7v, 5.8a, 7330rpm, 10.4oz, 41mph
RS 7x6, 7v, 7.35a, 7089rpm, 9oz, 28mph
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