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Old Feb 27, 2011, 10:05 AM
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I'm giving up on my PZ ME-109

I started off flying in spring 2008 with Real Flight and a HZ Super Cub, then moved on to a PZ brushed P-51 and flew that till it was more tape than original parts, then a PZ Corsair which I have only crashed once and love to fly (my favorite plane so far), then a PZ Wildcat (about a dozen or so flights on that, only 1 crash, had my elevator reversed on first flight).

So I bought a PZ ME-109 and two flights and two catastophic crashes later, I am giving up, salvaging the electronics, and moving on from that plane. First flight, it was very touchy and I lost orientation and nose dived it straight into the ground. Buy a new fuselage, rebuild it, enlarge the wingtip yellow paint, add yellow paint to the wing under the fuselage, and spend a good amount of time setting the D/R and expo, and centering the control surfaces. Go out this morning, hand launch, and before I could get my hands back onto the controls, the plane climbs, rolls to the left, and smashes into the ground.

Makes me wonder about buying the FMS ME-109f coming out this summer. I don't know if it is beyond my current skill level, the flight characteristics of the ME-109, the flight characteristics of PZ's ME-109, or a combination of all 3.
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 11:04 AM
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Joined Jun 2008
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Yeah, this plane can be a handful. It has terrible ground handling and if you are too slow and go full throttle it has a nasty torque roll to the left. The torque roll has got me on a couple of occasions but now I am used to it. On a hand launch give it a good strong throw with the throttle at 3/4 and you should be ok.

Once you get the plane flying and up to speed it flies great but it is not for everyone. My 109 actually came from my brother who traded for my T-28 because he hated it. I put a bigger Turnigy motor in it running 900 kv a 60amp speed controller and eflite electric retacts and I really like it now. But landings and takeoff always present a challenge which I like but again is not for everyone.
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 11:12 AM
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United States, NV, North Las Vegas
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I think once set up correctly(CG is CRITICAL as are throws) it's a nice flying plane... it is a real to land and take offs can be a wild ride as well... I finally gave up on the wheels and now hand launch/belly land... MUCH easier

For hand launch I use about half throttle on my power 15 turning the stock 3 blade prop...a gentle toss and she flies away cleanly... any more throttle and you will be in for a wild ride due to prop torque

The real 109 killed LOT's of pilot's on take off and landing... the PZ version seems to be the same... set up right...keeping in mind it's a war bird and flying it accordingly... it's a real pussy cat in the air.
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Torque Roll

That was my first thought after I crashed it, that I had to much throttle, and it Torque Rolled. Then I thought that I should have read through the PZ ME-109 threads last night to see how most people handle the hand launch. Then I thought God is punishing me for skipping church to fly a Nazi airplane.....
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 01:13 PM
Team Compass/KBDD Team Pilot
Ah Clem's Avatar
Joined Mar 2005
3,345 Posts
"Yeah, this plane can be a handful. It has terrible ground handling and if you are too slow and go full throttle it has a nasty torque roll to the left."

I respectfully disagree.

Roll the power on smoothly at takeoff (I don't think I have ever used full throttle at take off), be ready or right rudder, make sure you have enough air speed-it will rise off straight and not drop the left wing.

On landing, don't slow it down too much and be ready on left rudder as the tail drops.

It will tip stall if you slow it down too much (I have found out the hard way-but this was my error). Never punch the throttle when going too slow (found that one out too). Apply/reduce power smoothly and there is no problem.

I am a helicopter flyer and a lousy airplane flyer, by the way.
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Old Mar 02, 2011, 03:52 PM
Parkstormer!
Raleigh, NC
Joined Jan 2010
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I struggled with mine at first, too, precisely because of the torque roll. I learned to tame it, though. When using gear, I apply throttle gradually and "feed in" right rudder, and let it get some speed up before giving it any significant up elevator. When hand-launching I use about 75% throttle and apply right rudder all the way through the toss, until the plane's up and tracking straight, then let go of the right rudder. Now, it's one of my favorites!
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Old Mar 02, 2011, 05:03 PM
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Joined Apr 2005
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i have a power 25 in mine, 3/4 throttle and no toss needed, let it go and away it goes straight and level. the easiest plane i have to hand launch too.
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Old Mar 02, 2011, 05:48 PM
Gravity's a harsh Mistress....
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United States, MD, Lusby
Joined Jan 2007
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From the sound of it, you're expecting the plane to fly it's self. The Corsair is pretty much a bent wing glider, and almost flys it's self. The 109 on the other hand has to be flown, a first for the PZ line. I've had all the PZ planes, and the 109 is the first that needs you to be a pilot from take off to landing.
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Old Mar 02, 2011, 07:25 PM
Thailand
Joined Aug 2010
521 Posts
I fly a Spitfire model and was reading the full size pilots notes.
They used to hold right rudder and right aileron for take off.
I tried this and it works great.
I guess it takes the weight off the left wheel a bit and helps to keep it straight.
You obviously need to get the right rudder and right aileron off once airborne but it really helps the tracking down the runway during take off.
Jim
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Old Mar 03, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
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I hate handlaunching...too many flubs LOL.
My PZ 109 still has gear and its not too bad to get airborne. I also have a power 25 in it running on 4s 2200 with a 12x10 prop.
Flaps seem to work somewhat ok for slowing it down, but Im gonna add the inner split flap portions soon.
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Old Mar 04, 2011, 04:55 AM
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UK
Joined Nov 2009
236 Posts
The PZ BF-109 isn't for a beginner at all and I think the title "Park Flyer" makes people think it's a nice little plane for a beginner to take down to the park on a Sunday afternoon.

They will then become very disheartened when it all ends in $200 tears and a bag of foam parts.

Parkzone should really apply a difficulty scale to their aircraft so it's quite clear just what you're purchasing and don't end up exactly as the original poster of this thread has.

Don't be disheartened, the 109 is notoriously difficult to launch, in fact there were more 109's lost in the Second World War through ground handling incidents than actually shot down!
Keep trying with it as it is a lovely plane to fly, follow these easy steps:

1. make sure all the controls work correctly
2. use minimum rates
3. 30% expo on all controls!
4. Make sure the C of G is forward, you want it to balance slightly nose down
5. hand launch with 3/4 throttle and be ready to give some right rudder
6. better still, get someone else to hand launch for you.

Once used to flying it, the wheels can go back on and practice practice practice taxying around, build up the speed and let the tail fly, keep practicing until it becomes natural to steer the plane with the tail flying.
Then its just a case of a little more throttle and she's away.

Please don't give up.
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Old Mar 04, 2011, 09:59 AM
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Houston, TX
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I thought my 109 is the easiest to hand launch. Its also the biggest/heaviest in my 10+ hangar of hand launch planes. 3/4 or so throttle on launch with stock set up and 2200mah lipo and it just floats away. I tend to like aft c.g. so it launch/land much slower.
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Old Mar 04, 2011, 10:11 AM
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Joined Aug 2003
612 Posts
hi,several flight sims have the pz109 and others parzkone ac,i have it on the
flying model simulater [free],not an exact macth in way it flies but good
enough for practice
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Old Mar 04, 2011, 10:48 AM
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James321's Avatar
UK
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236 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_109 View Post
I thought my 109 is the easiest to hand launch. Its also the biggest/heaviest in my 10+ hangar of hand launch planes. 3/4 or so throttle on launch with stock set up and 2200mah lipo and it just floats away. I tend to like aft c.g. so it launch/land much slower.

It will be much more sensitive in pitch with an aft CofG so probably not so good for someone struggling to fly this one.
Keep it forward and keep it safe.
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Old Mar 04, 2011, 11:53 AM
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Houston, TX
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Yes, pitch will be more sensitive but the plane can fly slower w/o fear of stalling. Some expo on the elevator channel can counter the pitch twitchiness. He's got more than enough experience on flying so slower flight capability will allow less throttle on toss and less torque roll. That's how I see it. Whatever work for folks.
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