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Old May 24, 2014, 01:01 PM
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Figured I would make a thread dedicated to all of my testing and hairbrained ideas, so I wouldn't pollute everyone else's threads....

First up is the age old 6s vs 12s debate...I tried to get as close as possible to having 2 motors that would have the same final output speed on their respective voltages, I chose a Hyperion 3026-1900 for the 6s test, and a Hyperion 3026-1000KV for 12s test...both motors used the same reduction rate (23.03:1) and both were governed at a head speed of 1550 rpm. Both tests used the exact same batteries.. fully charged at the beginning of each test... (2 x 4000 mAh 6s Zippy 20c)

The 12s motor was at a slight disadvantage, as it had a slightly higher overall possible speed, but I had to run it at like 85% to have the same HS as the 6s 1900KV at full speed (95% governed)

Overall, the tests were identical in terms of wattage (601 vs 603) and exactly a 50% drop in amperage 25 amps vs 12.5..ESC temps were the same at a shade over 100 degrees..

However, even at a 23.03:1 reduction, according to the logging, the 6s motor was at 80% power output, and the 12s variant was at only 40%!

The governed HS was NOTICABLY better on 12s, audibly while flying, as well as graphed on the logging..

The 6s motor had slight variations in amp draw whereas the 12s was a pure flatline across the board...

Not available on the log, but according to my temperature gun, the 6s motor was 122 degrees at the end of it's flight..the 12s was 94 degrees (just about ambient temp)

According to the specs on the motors from Hyperion..BOTH are *supposed* to be ran on 6s or less.... but the 1000KV seemed to handle the double voltage just fine....
Just thought I would put that out there...

So...as for power consumption...or any gains to be had by going with a higher voltage, I consider that to be negligible at best.. (at least at this high of a gear reduction) You do gain cooler temps, ability to lose weight with smaller gauge wires, smaller ESC etc...and a hell of a lot more available power...
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Old May 24, 2014, 02:46 PM
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Stress test on the 1000KV motor on 12s...continuous pitch pumps..('bout all the stress I can put on one) *grins*
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Old May 25, 2014, 08:17 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Interesting. I wouldn't have expected to see the differences you recorded.
Might the tests be more revealing if you ran much higher headspeed, something over 2000RPM perhaps might start to show up differences under higher power demand?
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Old May 25, 2014, 08:41 AM
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I'll run a lot more tests...this was just the first.. right now she has asymmetrical blades on her and anything over 2000 RPM is plain scary to me.. just the slightest input and off she goes with all the lift they make...

I'll drop the ratio down a bit and do another round of tests...
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Old May 25, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Kauai
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Myth buster

Cool info Troy!
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Old May 25, 2014, 11:14 AM
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Reduced the reduction ratio to 15.36:1 and ran both motors at 2000HS... The 12s motor was a flatline 16 amps in a hover out of ground effects...the 6s was at 36 amps, definitely having to work harder..temps went through the roof on the 6s as well..If I had flown it much longer..just in a hover, the ESC would have probably shut down on me and the motor was smoking hot..just after a few minutes...

On 12s, motor was warm at best, and the esc barely broke 100 degrees
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Old May 25, 2014, 11:53 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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I'm curious, what size and model of heli are these tests being done on?

The thing i find odd is that helis can and do fly very well on 6s without overheating, yet in your test just hovering was cooking the motor? What's different?

They seem like very small motors considering the size of the batteries?
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Old May 25, 2014, 12:14 PM
I do "heavy arrivals"...
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Joined Apr 2013
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Troy you're a bit overqualified to run comparison tests on your Maserati you need a "normal" heli to do comparisons on, not that....space-ship of yours Meanwhile, don't know if it matters or not or if i can clutter this post with my stuff, but here goes...if you want me to delete, just drop a note....

from my blog...don't know if it's legal or not to re-post blog stuff in regular forums...

"little log of my regular flying(light sport)....moderate acceleration, FFF, figure9's, stall turns. no 3d.

Throttle: 0-52-60-67-72 (hovers @ around 60%)
Flying with 5000mah 25C Zippy 6s"



you know my set-up...
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Old May 25, 2014, 04:41 PM
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Heli is one of a kind, hand machined to run these very tests...all belt driven, 2 stage reduction. Gear ratio options from 9:1 to over 30:1, depending on pulleys used.
Can mount a variety of motors, from 30mm to 50mm (top mount motor so no frame interference) Heli can swing up to 12mm root blades..right now running the smallest I have (550mm ,10mm root, asymmetrical)

The motors used in the first testing are 500 sized (3026 series) The point is to actually test, not go stick banging *grins* So even at 16-1800 HS..she is under quite a load already...
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Old May 25, 2014, 05:52 PM
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No load test on the belt drive...1st graph is just the primary reduction unit...second graph is the primary and the main belt drive with no blades...

It's taking 1/3 of the power used in a hover just to spin up the drivetrain..no blades and no tail. The primary reduction using the most. Got some head scratching to do....
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Old May 25, 2014, 07:22 PM
I do "heavy arrivals"...
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o, ok. i thought it's like 100:1 ratio and you can hover with a 250 motor swinging 600blades nevermind then, you got the test bed.
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Old May 25, 2014, 07:39 PM
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It's on the list....*grins*
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Old May 25, 2014, 08:20 PM
I do "heavy arrivals"...
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o nooyou're unbelievable!! retirement takes its toll i guess
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Old May 25, 2014, 08:26 PM
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The higher voltage the better. I think it was Nikola Tesla that proved it. Unlike Benjamin Franklin whom I believe never invented anything in his life. He was in the known. If you wanted anything to get done and pasted you had to go threw him as he was a patent officer and publisher. He didn't patent anything because of being sued by the Juno a club he put together of thinkers and he told these guys "... as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously."[27] Of course the people he took his ideas off of didn't have a publication. I believe that is one reason for the war between him and Tesla. Tesla saw him as the fraud he was.
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Old May 26, 2014, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Pitcher View Post
o nooyou're unbelievable!! retirement takes its toll i guess
This is a past project along the same lines..a 250 with 130x sized motor, and control board..AUW was only 260 grams and she would fly for well over 12-13 minutes...had a 6t pinion and 120t main gear..20:1 reduction...

130x/250 hybrid (8 min 42 sec)
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