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Old May 27, 2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by slothy89 View Post
Why start FP? Well here's one good reason, we aren't all made of money!

While learning the basics in orientation and control its cheaper and easier to start FP, and generally the FP helis available these days are much more durable than most CP kits.

If I started straight on CP, imagine how discouraging it would be if I crashed my maiden then had to spend a bunch of money to fix it, and wait a few weeks for parts to arrive before being able to fly again?

There is a considerable outlay to getting set up in this hobby, and not everyone can afford to jump into the deep end from the start.
Too true. I probably kissed the ground 3 times per battery in sr120 for the first month. That's 60 mishaps from nose to side to tail to rotor. In that, I went through 2 sets of main rotors, one tail rotor, and a tail motor (died of natural causes). My spare parts outlay was minimal because it was very durable. Oh and a battery mount.

My skills grew quickly and I didn't spend more than 1.5 weeks figuring out basic orientations.

On the 250, 10 flights with 2 mishaps has cost parts and downtime. No way I could manage that at zero flights logged.

Back OT, maybe 3d is in my future, but personally what gets me going is finesse and grace. Smoothness, soft landings, banking into a turn and pulling through it. I'm not good at fast FF yet but I dream of pulling into a steep bank and hearing it claw for air as it rolls through a turn, and then slinging it the other way, without it looking like a robot yanking back and forth. Grace.... Want to make it look easy...



Mike
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Old May 30, 2012, 07:52 PM
still a lot to learn!!!!
Auflyer's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Laurieton
Joined Jan 2012
306 Posts
Capt jac, on my new Titan 450 v2 it comes with a t-6x tx which only has normal flight mode and idle up. Do you suggest I set idle up as you described with st1??? For a beginner what dontou suggest to set the dr at. I'm doing plenty of reading and will take my time before tackling it. I just need to work out where to adjust the gyro gain to to select head hold mode and how to activate dual rates on the rc
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Old May 30, 2012, 11:30 PM
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Utah
Joined Sep 2009
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Great post!

I agree that 3d is not the be-all, end-all to rotary flight. I love the look of scale machines acting like real helis! (as long as they don't start strafing and firing rockets at me!)

Ciao
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Old May 31, 2012, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Auflyer View Post
Capt jac, on my new Titan 450 v2 it comes with a t-6x tx which only has normal flight mode and idle up. Do you suggest I set idle up as you described with st1??? For a beginner what dontou suggest to set the dr at. I'm doing plenty of reading and will take my time before tackling it.
A LOT of reading is always a good idea. There is no end to the learning curve in this hobby - I find that out everyday learning something new. Idle-up is basically ST1 with a flat throttle curve so you spin-up with it OFF and fly with it ON. What is important is adjusting the pitch curve so your heli is just lifting above center stick. I use 3 for center stick - 3D'ers insist it should be 0 to train for inverted flight - believe me I have been everything but public flogged for my 3 viewpoint. They do make one valid argument though - most beginners don't know for themselves if they want to progress to 3D - and they should be taught from the outset the correct setting for 3D (everything above center stick is positive pitch and everything below center stick is negative pitch). My contention is - most beginners don't ever progress to 3D because the bar is set too high for them to succeed from the get-go. I don't know what the statistics are for beginners throwing in the towel but I would guestimate 99% give up after 1-2 months of beating themselves and their helis and their bank accounts to death. My way of thinking is to lower the standards the high priests have established to join their church - and set up your heli and your transmitter to make it as easy as possible. Then over time - begin the one-step-at-a-time climb. Infants first have to learn to stand before they can take their first step. Learning to stand (hover) is an enormous undertaking and takes hours and hours of practice and falling on your face - before you are standing and not wobbling all over the place. My method of "madness" is to learn how to stand first! Perhaps - a small perhaps but it is a perhaps - more beginners will have a sense of accomplishment instead of failure and will want to move up.

For hovering (learning to stand) you hardly need any negative pitch but you need lots of resolution on your collective - hence the 8 at top stick, 3 at center stick and -2 at bottom stick. This gives you much finer resolution for maintaining altitude. Use a neck-strap so you aren't holding your transmitter and your hands can rest on the sides. If you are a "thumber" introduce you finger to your thumb - this will give you much finer control of the sticks. Use about 20 percent expo for the cyclic - less than that you will over-control - more than that it will be too "sluggish".

When your heli gets light at the skids (just below center stick) switch idle-up to ON - continue to graaadually increase your collective - input just a tad of right aileron until the heli starts tilting on the right skid (careful - too much and you tip over and you will be picking up the pieces in a plastic bag). At the point where the heli is balancing precariously on the right skid increase your collective - SLOWLY!! If you do it right - your heli will lift vertically and look like it is hanging on a thread! If this is your first time - immediately reduce collective and land - switch throttle-hold to ON. Put transmitter on ground - and throw your hands up in the air and clap!! A small dance is OK too! Congratulations!! You just experienced your first successful hover!! One small leap for the heli - one giant leap for you! Repeat the lift off again. DON'T try to correct it if you get a bad lift off. LAND and try again. Keep repeating until you are more and more consistent with a vertical lift. This first 2 seconds is super critical. If you get a bad lift off and try to correct it you will be introducing error - and the more error you introduce the worse it will get - aka a CRASH!! Have a great training - don't fly more than 3 batteries the first time - your brain will be permanently damaged.

captJac
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Last edited by CaptJac; Mar 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM.
Old May 31, 2012, 10:05 AM
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I really like the thought direction of your approach but I am confused. At the top you say 3% at center stick and toward the middle you say -3% at center. You must mean 3% in the second case right? Can you say what is intended again?
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Old May 31, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmps View Post
I really like the thought direction of your approach but I am confused. At the top you say 3% at center stick and toward the middle you say -3% at center. You must mean 3% in the second case right? Can you say what is intended again?
Thanks for catching that - my hyphen looked like a minus sign - replaced it with a comma. There is no negative pitch in those settings. If you are flying in the wind (not a good idea for beginners because the translational lift makes it it bob like a yoyo) - add a little negative pitch (0 becomes -2) just in case you hit an updraft.

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Old Jun 02, 2012, 04:15 PM
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whitehedr's Avatar
United States, IL, New Lenox
Joined Jan 2012
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My Hausler 450 SE v2 was setup by the hobby shop where I bought it with a pitch curve of
50, 50, 50, 80, 80. It flew fine.

CaptJac has me flying a similar setup to this thread on the Sim. After I made the adjustments for my Hausler on my DX6i radio my pitch curve had the following percentages for -2, 0, 3, 5, 8 degrees.

30.5% for -2 degrees
38.0% for 0 degrees
51% for 3 degrees
68% for 5 degrees
77.5% for 8 degrees

Are these percentages consistent to what others that have set up their DX6i for this kind of beginner curve? If they are not consistent what did you get?

I have not had a chance to fly it yet because of wind and rain today.

RWW
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Last edited by whitehedr; Jun 02, 2012 at 04:19 PM. Reason: added a thought
Old Jun 02, 2012, 05:26 PM
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So the wind died down a little bit and the sun came out so out to the back yard to try it. Different and scary at the same time. I had never hit the idle up switch on a real aircraft before. WOW what a rush!! I hovered it for about 3 minutes and the wind started picking up again so I quit rather than bend something.

RWW
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 12:53 AM
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3 minutes hover in the wind without crashing - that's not a rush - that's a myocardial infarction! CONGRATULATIONS!! That simulator time really working for you!

Hope that 50-50-50-80-80 your hobby shop set up for you was throttle curve and not pitch curve! Pitch curve wise - your DX6i percentages are dependant on the mechanical setup of your heli. A very small mechanical difference translates to degrees on your pitch gauge so the percentages will be slightly different. That's why the pitch curves in your transmitter are in percentage and not in degrees.

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Old Jun 03, 2012, 02:06 AM
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Thanks CaptJac. When I flipped the Idle up switch and the RPM climbed I was in major pucker factor. I relaxed a little bit when it broke ground. Yes, my sim time is starting to pay dividends. You will be pleased at our next session.

I hope it is not windy tomorrow!!

RWW
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Windy again this morning but I tried it anyway. 6min 40sec of hover time with the new pitch and throttle curves. Less nerve wracking today than yesterday. My DR/expo is set at 100& and 20%. I'm thinking I might want to try 80% and 20% for Rate and expo respectively. Any thoughts, comments, criticism on that thinking?

RWW


ps. Still looking for your % settings (ballpark) for others that have set up these curves. Just curious to see what others have come up with.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 12:43 PM
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hi, im running dualrates at 80 on high and set 60 on low, after testing .dropped low rate to 50
on hausler v2,nice heli .also went whith second set flybar weights ,upped the
hands off hover time noticably.also put heli on 500 skids
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 04:21 PM
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Mdugas,

I will have to try the second set of weights? Did you put them all the way out to the paddles? My Hausler is also on 500 skids and pipes.

What expo did you use with your 60 and 50 rate setting? I am a rookie at this but 50 seems pretty low for the rate.

RWW
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:06 PM
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United States, CA, Rancho Cordova
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Good Topic

I've been flying now for 1 year 4mons. I've gotten really good a 2d stuff and am wondering what now. I have a mCPx that recently was able to do a inverted figure 8 and today I did a rough inverted circle. I have to be honest. I never wanted to to 3d. I noticed that a lot of people know they want to do 3d before they even start. They have that gleam in their eyes and say "I want to fly inverted" I have 2 450s a 500, a Walkera V400d and mCPx(a lot of FP also). I'm perfectly happy flying them 2d and just can't bring myself to invert them. I'm sure I can do it but just don't want to crash them. I had close to 600 flights on the EXI 450 and then finally crashed trying to fly in to much wind. the Mini Titan is ghetting close to 200 flights and no crashes, the 500 has about 64 flights and no crashes. If I keep it up, I might be able to afford this hobby. The mCPx has about 30 crashes and all I do is push that gear back up.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 08:13 PM
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Hi all!

Great info CapJac! but i don't have a spektrum, I have an Aurora 9 can you give me any help in doing the same thing on mine?

While my new heli is the Embla 450S Flybarless, i did NOT buy it flybarless to do 3D, BUT INSTEAD because i want it to look right when they finally come out with a SCALE body for it! The FLYBAR never did it for me!!!

So any help anyone can give me in setting it up for slow and scale will be greatly appreciated. In case it matters the BEASTX will be my flybarless system.
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