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Old Dec 05, 2012, 04:32 PM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
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the throttle will only hold ground speed.. my recomendation is to use manua throttle control and set to half throttle failsafe

Steve
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 06:26 PM
Aerial Operator
United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Feb 2012
637 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
the throttle will only hold ground speed.. my recomendation is to use manua throttle control and set to half throttle failsafe

Steve
Thanks Steve!

I was curious if I should update the FY31 and hornet with the new firmware? I am not sure what firmware is in the unit right now?

Look forward to hearing from you!

Thanks
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:02 PM
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Banff Alberta Canada
Joined Nov 2004
569 Posts
The devil is in the details

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Originally Posted by Pattaya01 View Post
One more remark about this issue:

I am flying my FPV Raptor with the FY31AP and Hornet with great pleasure. I love to plan long trips and make beautiful recordings of Thailand's countryside. I am trying to avoid populated area's as much as possible, but you can never avoid 100% to fly over houses, streets, etc.

I have noticed in some occasions, the speed of my plane can be over 100Km/Hr. That is why I have connected the throttle control to the 31AP. But still it gets that fast. Imagine something goes wrong, and I go down with that speed. The weight of my plane is just over 2Kg. E=MC2 so the energy for this projectile would be huge. I do not dare to think what would happen if you hit a car, a house or a person.

That is why I would like to have full knowledge of all the settings of this device. We should never forget we are responsible for our actions and when we fly autonomously, we should always make sure we take all precautions to fly stable and safely.
I agree.
I think that every precaution that can possibly be taken , should be taken.
This past summer I had my Skywalker UAV crash because of a locked down
aileron servo and I saw a fellow flyer crash his Skywalker because of a seized up servo. I now use better quality linkages and servos. I also use a separate BEC for my servos. There are many precautions that can be made to stop
your UAV from going astray and it's very wise to use them all.
" The Devil Is In The Details ".
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:43 PM
When a hobby gets a passion
Thailand, Chon Buri, Pattaya
Joined Sep 2012
762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
the throttle will only hold ground speed.. my recomendation is to use manua throttle control and set to half throttle failsafe

Steve
Dear Steve,

There is a danger in your recommendation.

When flying like that, the motor will always be running on half throttle, the moment you are out of range of your transmitter or loose connection due to any other circumstance.

1) When making a turn, the plane will loose height and of course the 31 compensates by giving elevator up. As a result, your speed goes down. When it is a 180 degrees turn, it can be quite considerable. If you only fly with 1/2 throttle, this may result in a stall.

2) If you program a path with different altitudes, the same may happen. When climbing up, only flying 1/2 throttle, you may end up with a stall again.

From my experience, the 31 controls the throttle very well. Yes, it is related to ground speed as there is no air speed sensor. That would be the best solution of course. But I have noticed it only controls the throttle within a certain range and there is a balance between throttle and speed.

For example:

I program a ground speed of 60Km/H. When flying with wind from the back, my ground speed goes up to 80, when flying into the wind, it goes down to about 50. But nevertheless, in the above situations, it handles the throttle very well.

I am not doubting your expertise with the 31, neither do I want to be un-respectful, but I have flown from the beginning with throttle on the 31 and can see big advantages.

A good example is this flight where I program various altitudes. Look at the current consumption (= throttle) when a change in altitude comes:

19112012_Wat_Yansangwararam.avi (7 min 44 sec)


Regards,
Anthony.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:31 PM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
4,965 Posts
Anthony I agree 100% with what you are saying and also agree 31AP does a reasonable job of controlling throttle...

but by the same actions the 31AP can also under control your throttle for you.

I never fly out of RC range so the RTL is emergency only and it will just turn the plane back.. I will have control within seconds at most and will have throttle control again.

When I fly my missions I know the wind direction and adjust my speed according to wind direction manually so that the 31AP is not trying to maintain say 60kmph ground speed when I am into a 40km per hour wind.... this would make my throttle go very high when really I need very little to maintain good lift.

both ways will work but the user must know the limitations of each system.

You are correct in that I am only stating what I personally do and that will not work for everyone.

One final note I have used throttle control on 31AP with good sucess but also there is an extra elemet of danger here on auto take off as I have stated before.

Happy flying!

Steve
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:33 PM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
4,965 Posts
Hi there, personally I don't have a hornet installed but from the feedback I am hearing the most recent firmware on the hornet and 31AP is working well and it is recommended to upgrade.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzracing View Post
Thanks Steve!

I was curious if I should update the FY31 and hornet with the new firmware? I am not sure what firmware is in the unit right now?

Look forward to hearing from you!

Thanks
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:25 AM
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United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Feb 2012
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Thanks Steve I appreciate your advice and knowledge!

Cheers,
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:57 PM
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tupelo's Avatar
Helsinki, Finland
Joined Feb 2008
293 Posts
V. 2.1 Hornet OSD to GPS port

Hi

Just updated Hornet to 1.6 version and FY-31AP to 2.1 version.

With the new FY-31AP firmware Feiuyutech states that "Hornet-OSD can be connected to GPS TX port"

If I connect the Hornet to the GPS port, where will I connect the GPS to? To the "UART" port below it where connection to Hornet is now?

Or should I connect the GPS to the Hornet? This seems impossible because the Hornet has only current sensor port and the port where the cable from the FY-31 is connected. The latter also enables connection of the GPS but if I connect GPS there, there is no room for the cable from the FY-31 anymore.

Or should I leave everything as is?

Another matter is the two versions oh the Hornetīs new 1.6 firmware. There is "attitude" and "horizon" versions of the firmware.

I understand that it is a matter of different info on the screen but what is the info?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 05:10 PM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
4,965 Posts
I was pondering this myself....

I am not sure why this would be an option.... honestly I would leave it as-is if I was you... if it aint broke... don't fix it

I have asked FY to explain any advantage to this setup and I will pass on anything they say.

I will also ask about the attitude vs horizon but my guess is that someone has requested that the artificial horizon be shown as the airplane attitude instead of horizon representation... I have not idea why they would want this but.... to each their own I supppose.

edit.... looking at the pdf included with the download it seems to match my guess

"Attitude table dotted line represents the plane or the horizon,you can choose to use different
firmware."

So the dotted line will be the attitude of the plane which to me would just be a horizontal line but the pitch would change I suppose......

Steve
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:00 PM
When a hobby gets a passion
Thailand, Chon Buri, Pattaya
Joined Sep 2012
762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupelo View Post
Hi

Just updated Hornet to 1.6 version and FY-31AP to 2.1 version.

With the new FY-31AP firmware Feiuyutech states that "Hornet-OSD can be connected to GPS TX port"

If I connect the Hornet to the GPS port, where will I connect the GPS to? To the "UART" port below it where connection to Hornet is now?

Or should I connect the GPS to the Hornet? This seems impossible because the Hornet has only current sensor port and the port where the cable from the FY-31 is connected. The latter also enables connection of the GPS but if I connect GPS there, there is no room for the cable from the FY-31 anymore.

Or should I leave everything as is?

Another matter is the two versions oh the Hornetīs new 1.6 firmware. There is "attitude" and "horizon" versions of the firmware.

I understand that it is a matter of different info on the screen but what is the info?
I also updated and tried to connect the Hornet to the TX out. Absolutely no result. Even worse, the Hornet says: "No Video". It's one of those mysterious things again. If they suggest something like that, they should provide a proper wiring diagram. Also with the "Horizon" and "Attitude" selection. No explanation whatsoever.

As mentioned before, I do get frustrated every now and then. PID settings, no proper explanation, just some "Chinglish" and mistakes, no corrections.

What if we all start writing emails and complaining about the lack of information???

Maybe after 30 or 40 mails they will realize they have to improve on it? (I recon it will take at least 30 mails)
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:15 PM
Oopss. Oh well.
borneobear's Avatar
In the tropics
Joined Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattaya01 View Post
What if we all start writing emails and complaining about the lack of information???

Maybe after 30 or 40 mails they will realize they have to improve on it?
I agree!!

Send email to their support team. Here it is:

service@feiyu-tech dot com

I think they are oblivious to the problems we face.


Cheers,

BB
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 08:20 PM
Registered User
Banff Alberta Canada
Joined Nov 2004
569 Posts
P.I.D. controllers revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattaya01 View Post
I also updated and tried to connect the Hornet to the TX out. Absolutely no result. Even worse, the Hornet says: "No Video". It's one of those mysterious things again. If they suggest something like that, they should provide a proper wiring diagram. Also with the "Horizon" and "Attitude" selection. No explanation whatsoever.

As mentioned before, I do get frustrated every now and then. PID settings, no proper explanation, just some "Chinglish" and mistakes, no corrections.
Way back on page 37 on this thread , I posted an explanation of PID controllers
That's when I initially mentioned that the best way to optimimize the PID setting is by using a simulator.
The setting can greatly vary from one plane to another and from the way that you want your UAV to fly. For instants , I want the PID settings to be heavily dampened for my Skywalker so that it can take better still aerial photos.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...l#post21263663
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:05 PM
When a hobby gets a passion
Thailand, Chon Buri, Pattaya
Joined Sep 2012
762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by larry baraniuk View Post
Way back on page 37 on this thread , I posted an explanation of PID controllers
That's when I initially mentioned that the best way to optimimize the PID setting is by using a simulator.
The setting can greatly vary from one plane to another and from the way that you want your UAV to fly. For instants , I want the PID settings to be heavily dampened for my Skywalker so that it can take better still aerial photos.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...l#post21263663
Fully, 1000% agree with you. Would be lovely to be able to hook up the 31 to a simulator and get understanding of the settings without risking your plane. But how to hook the 31 up???

Once you understand the effect of the various values, it gets so easy to apply to your own plane......
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:54 PM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
4,965 Posts
yup it's all true... but honestly there is no subtstitute for just flying the plane...

play with the values via data modem and see what they do... maybe I need to do an in-flight video and adjust the values so that they are way off then bring them back to the proper ones.

I do agree though documentaion is pretty bad... however if you guys have ever tried to tune something like ardupilot you will find documentation to be better but the results sucks.

Actually you can make your plane crash with putting in the wrong value on ardupilot... it's almost impossible to crash FY products by adjusting their values.

Just remember to get ready to take manual control at any point in time after you send up a PID value.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:25 AM
When a hobby gets a passion
Thailand, Chon Buri, Pattaya
Joined Sep 2012
762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
yup it's all true... but honestly there is no subtstitute for just flying the plane...

play with the values via data modem and see what they do... maybe I need to do an in-flight video and adjust the values so that they are way off then bring them back to the proper ones.

I do agree though documentaion is pretty bad... however if you guys have ever tried to tune something like ardupilot you will find documentation to be better but the results sucks.

Actually you can make your plane crash with putting in the wrong value on ardupilot... it's almost impossible to crash FY products by adjusting their values.

Just remember to get ready to take manual control at any point in time after you send up a PID value.
Dear Steve,

The point here is not trying to adjust the PID settings without flying the plane, the point is getting experience what the PID settings are doing, without risking your plane.

No, I never tried Ardupilot and for sure I never will. But just because they may even be worse, doesn't justify not writing a proper manual or giving clear and understandable examples.

I just don't like fixing things with my eyes closed, I would like to know what I'm doing BEFORE I do it. You may be correct it is almost impossible to crash your plane by adjusting the values, but if I have no clue about what I do and what I expect the result to be, the chances are not zero for having a crash.

Just flying a simulator is also a great way to learn controlling a model aircraft. When I started this hobby, there were no simulators and I crashed a few. These days, I see youngsters coming to the club, they practiced on the simulator and can fly almost instantly. Gaining experience, that's the key...

I have been an engineer all my life, I never started a project without proper study and fully understand what I am doing. Set my targets, get the information required and aim for the result. Maybe that is why I still have this urge.....

Anthony.
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