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Old Aug 07, 2013, 09:43 AM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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The danger of believing only the Government extends rights.

So, there are quite a few here who believe that only the Government can extend rights to the people.

So, the Russian government right now gives almost no rights to Homosexuals. How do we claim that there are Civil Rights violation in Russia, if the Russian government never extended those rights in the first place? Can something that never existed be violated?
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 10:00 AM
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uhhhh...durrrrrr...mmmmmm..aahhhh...uuuuuhhhhhhh.. .hhhmmmmmm

BUSH! Christians are Stupid Nini heads! Unatural is now Natural!


Did I about cover where this is going? Cause you know you won't get honest discussion on it, not here.
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Can something that never existed be violated?
Seeing as how most of the world has now outlawed outright slavery which at one time was widely accepted and was a way of life, I'd say the answer is yes, you can violate something that never existed.
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 10:55 AM
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I can't believe the title even needs explaination. That is what is frightning.
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 11:04 AM
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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 12:05 PM
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The funny things, at the time it was written slaves weren't taken into account, the second funny thing is if you tried today to rally people to abolish the current form of government you'd be rounded up as a terrorist.
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 12:15 PM
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A very good observation Logan. If the govt creates rights, claiming rights violations by the govt makes zero sense.
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 12:23 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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to paraphrase the Fonz ... "Exactamundo"
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 01:07 PM
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Sausalito Marin Cty, California, United States
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Originally Posted by dedStik View Post
The funny things, at the time it was written slaves weren't taken into account, the second funny thing is if you tried today to rally people to abolish the current form of government you'd be rounded up as a terrorist.
You may want to educate yourself a bit here. Slaves were most certainly taken into account, when writing the Constitution. There was a big push to abolish slavery and even give blacks and women the right to vote.

What do you think the 3/5ths compromise was all about? What were the goals of the two sides, making the compromise?
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wab25 View Post
You may want to educate yourself a bit here. Slaves were most certainly taken into account, when writing the Constitution. There was a big push to abolish slavery and even give blacks and women the right to vote.

What do you think the 3/5ths compromise was all about? What were the goals of the two sides, making the compromise?
Hint for you: It had nothing to do with slaves voting, and everything to do with slave owners representation in congress.
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dedStik View Post
Seeing as how most of the world has now outlawed outright slavery which at one time was widely accepted and was a way of life, I'd say the answer is yes, you can violate something that never existed.
Really? So it existed in the past and it was outlawed and you claim it never existed? Did I miss something in the translation?
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 09:44 PM
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Really? So it existed in the past and it was outlawed and you claim it never existed? Did I miss something in the translation?
It's a head-scratcher.
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Old Aug 08, 2013, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Hint for you: It had nothing to do with slaves voting, and everything to do with slave owners representation in congress.
Close, but no cigar. The slave owner did want higher representation in congress and more electoral votes. Those against slavery, put forth the argument that since the slaves could note vote, then they would not be represented. They argued that in order for the blacks to be counted as 1, they needed to have the vote. If they were not given the vote, they should be counted as 0, because they were given no representation. The slave owners objected, knowing the blacks would vote to end slavery. Thus a compromise was reached. But the argument was that if you want to count blacks, towards your states representation in congress, you needed to give them the right to vote.
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Old Aug 08, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by wab25 View Post
Close, but no cigar. The slave owner did want higher representation in congress and more electoral votes. Those against slavery, put forth the argument that since the slaves could note vote, then they would not be represented. They argued that in order for the blacks to be counted as 1, they needed to have the vote. If they were not given the vote, they should be counted as 0, because they were given no representation. The slave owners objected, knowing the blacks would vote to end slavery. Thus a compromise was reached. But the argument was that if you want to count blacks, towards your states representation in congress, you needed to give them the right to vote.
Nope. All men couldn't even vote at that time, and certainly not women. The argument was whether slaves were to be considered citizens instead of mere property, not whether they could vote or not.
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Old Aug 08, 2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
So, there are quite a few here who believe that only the Government can extend rights to the people.
Can you give us a list, cause I've never seen anyone post such nonsence.
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