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Old Apr 01, 2014, 06:27 PM
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United States, CA, Santa Maria
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Saito T2 GR

I am new to steam power and have a question about the displacement lubricator that came with the Saito T2 GR engine. I have bench tested it one time and am concerned about the lack of oil being displaced during the test. After running for about 20 minutes and letting it cool down. I was surprised to see that almost none of the oil had been displaced by the steam. I used a syringe to remove the oil and was expecting to pull water from the bottom of the lubricator and to my surprise it was almost non existent. Also when I emptied the oil separator it seemed to be all water with almost no oil residue. I am using the same steam oil that I use in my Monahan Sparrow Twin Cylinder Steam Engine ( Shell Valveta -460). When I run the Sparrow it will displace almost the entire lubricator in a normal 20 minute run. The lubricators seem to be similar devices tube passing through cylinder with a small hole. The only thing I can think of is the oil is to thick for the Saito. The Saito engine seems to run at a lower pressure that the Monahan engine. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 06:30 AM
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Did you check for anything obstructing the small hole in the lubricator?
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 07:32 AM
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Yes! I even ran a small drill bit through just to make sure.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 12:41 PM
Grumpa Tom
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Our resident Saito steam expert, Steve Ciambrone, will have an answer for you when he drops in. But he may be out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean at present.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 04:45 PM
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Thank you Kmot. I am eagerly waiting.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmot View Post
Our resident Saito steam expert, Steve Ciambrone, will have an answer for you when he drops in. But he may be out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean at present.
South America this time, saw the question this morning, but did not have an answer.
I have used the same type steam oil and it has been fine in other saito engines. I will assume the lubricator has a recess in the cap to give it some air space, other Saito's do. Only fill it till the oil is at the weep hole, overfilling it can cause a lack of air space for the steam to enter the lubricator.
I have usually had the Saito's be completely dry after a run because of the super heated steam.
You can prelube an engine and test the lubricator, by over filling the lubricator and with the cap still off and the throttle closed turn the fly wheel in the direction of rotation, the oil will be sucked in.
Thanks
Steve
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 08:34 AM
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Hi Steve,
Thank you for the quick response. After reading your post last evening I did as you proposed. I filled the lubricator with oil above the tube and hand cranked the motor with the cap off. The engine sucked in some oil. So I lowered the oil
level just below the inlet tube and ran the motor for about ten minutes. When I checked the lubricator it was still at the same level.
The only differance between the lubricator on the T2 GR and other lubricator is this one is shorter and fatter than other Saito Lubricators. It also has a much larger volume; wich I assume is because the engine has a much larger displacement. And yes the cap has a good size recess. I am stumped on this one.
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 08:02 AM
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Bill,
As a test you can bypass the superheater with silicone tubing available in r/c hobby shops..
You will need the larger size they carry. The steam will be wetter and not as hot. This should cause more condensate to form in the oiler.
Give it a try.
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 08:08 AM
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Also turning down the heat will make the steam wetter, the larger boiler has two burners which when the boiler starts producing steam is suppose to be turned off.

But when I have run the boiler very hot, the oil is always gone from the oiler after the run.
The saito boilers can produce much more steam than needed, and need to be turned down after the fuel tank gets hot.
Steve
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 09:50 AM
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Thank you Steve,
I will give it a try and let you know how it goes. I have been turning off one of the burners after the boiler up to working pressure & you are right it does seem to put out a lot of steam.
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 03:44 PM
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Empty the lubricator of oil. Then, with the top off the lubricator, fire up your boiler. Look for steam coming out the little hole in the tube. This will confirm that steam is actually reaching the oil. Since you are not getting any condensed steam in the lubricator, I suspect something is blocking the flow of steam into the unit.

Your cold, overfill-of-oil-spin-the-engine test confirmed that the oil can exit the lubricator. So the downstream side should be ok. But, check the levelness of lines running to/from the lubricator. If the engine is higher than the outlet of the lubricator, then oil will have to travel uphill to reach the motor. Perhaps the oil is pooling at the tiny hole, preventing steam from entering and condensing. When you run the engine by hand, you are making a suction that will draw oil along. But under steam, the motor is not sucking, leaving the oil pool in place.

And, where is the hole in relation to oil level: upper side, lower side? If the hole is on the lower side, rising oil level would block off the steam. Since you could put a drill in the hole, this is probably not the problem, though.

Hold an ice cube against the lubricator during operation. Maybe the lubricator is getting too hot to condense steam. Doesn't seem likely, but something you could try.

Hope this helps
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Last edited by Brooks; Apr 06, 2014 at 03:51 PM.
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Old Apr 07, 2014, 09:15 AM
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Thanks Brooks
I will run the test of the lubricator with the top off. The lubricator is in line withe engine so the steam from the lubricator is not traveling uphill. The steam line from the boiler to the lubricator goes like this; exits the top of boiler down to a superheater back up above the lubricator then into the lubricator. The lubricator does get very hot. I will run some tests this week and let you guys know how it went. I will also try to post some pictures of the plant. You know what they say! I really appreciate all the feed back.
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Old May 06, 2014, 02:02 PM
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test

well! I finally got around to testing as Brooks had suggested with the lubricator lid off. plenty of steam is coming through the small hole. The steam did seam to be a bit drier then I though it would be. I will try to bypass he superheater as Steve suggested and let you know how that goes. The photos are after I ran it with lid on.
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Old May 06, 2014, 02:14 PM
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Test

I noticed in recent post from Bill Smudge mentioned the oil that came with his Saito T2 was a very thin red colored oil. The oil I am using (and sounds like the surf most people are using) is quite thick. Will be interested to see what results he has when he tries the thicker oil.
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Old May 07, 2014, 09:48 AM
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I think Steve's idea to bypass the superheating (drying of steam, mostly, at our temperatures), is a very good one.

At steam temp's, even wet steam temps, the extra thickness of the oil you are using should not be a problem. I remember the thin red oil with my Saito; I've used thick 460 wt for years with no problems. There is a 600 wt oil that the steam RR guys all used when I ran 3.5" gauge locos, but I stuck with my 460, having bought 5gallons of it :-)
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