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Old Feb 21, 2012, 10:57 PM
Just trying to get a nut.
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United States, VA, McLean
Joined Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by scrtsqrl View Post
scrtsqrl,Hmm, the Guardian has a data port that is compatible with our airspeed sensor, so it could certainly be done if we get a lot of requests.
Bill,

I think for now, there will be little demand because very few folks know , much more understand the advantage of having the airspeed feedback in the control loop.

The only way it will gain popularity is if it is demonstrated, and subsequently marketed.

In addition to slaving stability gain to the airspeed, one can also slave elevator to airspeed. This would help mitigate wing tip stalls, further increasing the Guardian's appeal as a safety enhancing device.

For now, these features are limited to really high end equipment. You are uniquely positioned to introduce this to the general RC market.

Thanks for all the great work. Great interview on ATTF. I learned a lot.

JBB
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 01:36 AM
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JBB-Can you point me to where I can read or see the interview with Bill to which you refer? Thanks,

Jed
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 03:17 AM
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Czech Republic, Prague
Joined Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by jedorme View Post
JBB-Can you point me to where I can read or see the interview with Bill to which you refer? Thanks,
Jed
I believe he means this one hour interview in mp3, link is found at the bottom of the article No. 215 at ATTF #215 - Bill Parry from EagleTree Systems
EDIT: They came to Bill at 8:15, actually 9:15 of the mp3 sound file.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 09:30 AM
Mobius Cables... I got em'
chanyote66's Avatar
United States, TN, Oak Ridge
Joined Dec 2011
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Would be awesome if this came out sooner or some way to get it sooner. I have a event coming up that brings Universities from all over the East Coast to my home town. Usually there is around 2000-3000 people (mostly college students that love to blow money) for Rowing Crew training.

Imagine my FPV plane with a "Eagle Tree Systems" banner on the side and when people ask i can tell them that the awesome stable footage is from the all new GuardianTM 2D/3D Inertial Stabilizer!

Currently I'm only using gyros which just keep the shakes out... they wander though.

Using the Data port mentioned to connect a GPS or altimeter would be great! Lock in the current altitude exactly, or fail-safe to specific altitude!
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 02:13 AM
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USA, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2007
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airspeed/gain feedback

Hi John, there might be more demand than you suggest. All the FY stabilizer threads talk about the need to turn down gain for higher speeds.

I had my T-28 with FY-20A stabilizer up yesterday, and found that in 3D (attitude hold) mode, at high speed it oscillated on the roll axis. The Guardian already beats the FY units because the gain can be adjusted from the ground. But when doing any sort of maneuvers your proposal for automatic feedback would still be useful to save constant up/down adjustments.

Elevator feedback is another good idea but I got the impression the ET people were already thinking about throttle feedback (since they pass the throttle channel through the Guardian unit). As you know much better than I, if throttle is too low, then auto-adjusting the elevator to avoid a stall just leads to gradual altitude loss.

I guess there's one situation where this would be worth $100s - if you could tie elevator (or throttle) to both speed and g-forces. Since stall speed rises sharply when g force rises (i.e. in turns) this could save us from spinning out as we turn at low altitude/low speed in the landing pattern But this is Airbus-style fly-by-wire - seems like it calls for some fancy coding that might be beyond the ability of the $75 tiny Guardian unit. It sounds like something that an Arduino autopilot could take on, someday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrtsqrl View Post
Bill,

I think for now, there will be little demand because very few folks know , much more understand the advantage of having the airspeed feedback in the control loop.

The only way it will gain popularity is if it is demonstrated, and subsequently marketed.

In addition to slaving stability gain to the airspeed, one can also slave elevator to airspeed. This would help mitigate wing tip stalls, further increasing the Guardian's appeal as a safety enhancing device.

For now, these features are limited to really high end equipment. You are uniquely positioned to introduce this to the general RC market.

Thanks for all the great work. Great interview on ATTF. I learned a lot.

JBB
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 07:31 AM
Ex AmA mEMBEr
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United States, CA, San Bernardino
Joined Feb 2010
857 Posts
what?
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 08:08 AM
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Canada
Joined Nov 2002
83 Posts
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Originally Posted by billpa View Post
All, thanks for all the interest in the Guardian! It's really appreciated. I'm going to answer some of the posted questions now, and some I've referred to the expert here.

Roger, We spent a lot of time on counteracting the effects of vibration, and we're getting good feedback from people using the Guardian with nitro. We strongly recommend a ground test at varying throttle speeds for new setups, of course. The control surfaces can be observed to make sure they are not moving incorrectly. Also, since the Guardian gain can be controlled with a switch or knob, the stabilization can be switched off if there are issues encountered during flight.

Air2Mud, I believe you'd need to use a Y cable/reverser with one of the two sets, but we're looking into it.

moti, Yes, the Guardian works great with wings.

Jaguar22, It's quite a leap up from that, I believe. The Guardian is built around a 6DoF IMU of our own design. It does have a mode that is purely derivative, though.

stall warning, That option is there already. The Guardian has several modes - I'll publish the list asap.

going4speed, That can be done via a gain knob/switch channel on your radio.

scrtsqrl,Hmm, the Guardian has a data port that is compatible with our airspeed sensor, so it could certainly be done if we get a lot of requests.

SilverExpress, Yes.

CzechPilot, congrats! We've got your info and will be shipping yours when the first shipment arrives.

jedorme, I think we've got you covered, but let me get back on this.

Andre, I think you are asking whether the Guardian will work with an OSD Pro connected to our Flight Data Recorder (rather than an eLogger). You should be able to connect the Guardian stabilizer after the OSD pro in this configuration, and the Guardian will stabilize the model, even during RTH (since the Guardian Expander is not supported on the Flight Data Recorder - sorry).

To clarify a little about FPV, here are some additional thoughts:
- If you are doing FPV and are looking for an OSD + Stabilization, I'd recommend the OSD Pro (eLogger version) + the Guardian Expander. This gives full on-screen setup, AHI, etc., and is a more integrated solution.
- If are not doing FPV, or are doing FPV without an OSD,or are using an OSD other than the OSD Pro, the Guardian 2D/3D stabilizer should be perfect for you.

jedorme,sorry about the confusion about our preorder policy. As part of the order process, this information is displayed above the "I accept" button:

Backorders and Preorders
We provide backorder and preorder capability on our website for your convenience, subject to the following terms and conditions:
* Items that are preorders or backorders will be indicated as such in the information displayed when you add the item to your shopping cart.
* Preorders and backorders are charged immediately to your credit card or PayPal account, via our automated shopping cart payment processor.
...."

We've tried to make this policy clear, but could have done more I'm sure. To make a long story short, we've had this policy since 2004, due to the way our shopping cart interacted with the credit card payment processors. To date this has not been something that we get much feedback about, and is not something we've really thought about for years.

However, we made some upgrades to our system recently, and the LAST thing we want to do is upset people, so after a long adventure today, for credit card purchases our cart now does authorization at order time, and does not charge until ship time. Presently paypal purchases are still charged immediately - that's tomorrow's adventure. If you have a credit card preorder with us already, and want us to delay the charge, just respond to your order acknowledgement email and ask to cancel the order. Due to our card security policy, we're not able to reprocess the order automatically, so you'll just need to place the order again if you want to preorder again and take advantage of the new policy. Sorry again for any confusion this may have caused people.
Thank you for answering my question about large airplanes... I need one of these LOL
Roger
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:50 AM
Just trying to get a nut.
scrtsqrl's Avatar
United States, VA, McLean
Joined Oct 2006
6,480 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reegor View Post
Hi John, there might be more demand than you suggest. All the FY stabilizer threads talk about the need to turn down gain for higher speeds.

I had my T-28 with FY-20A stabilizer up yesterday, and found that in 3D (attitude hold) mode, at high speed it oscillated on the roll axis. The Guardian already beats the FY units because the gain can be adjusted from the ground. But when doing any sort of maneuvers your proposal for automatic feedback would still be useful to save constant up/down adjustments.

Elevator feedback is another good idea but I got the impression the ET people were already thinking about throttle feedback (since they pass the throttle channel through the Guardian unit). As you know much better than I, if throttle is too low, then auto-adjusting the elevator to avoid a stall just leads to gradual altitude loss.

I guess there's one situation where this would be worth $100s - if you could tie elevator (or throttle) to both speed and g-forces. Since stall speed rises sharply when g force rises (i.e. in turns) this could save us from spinning out as we turn at low altitude/low speed in the landing pattern But this is Airbus-style fly-by-wire - seems like it calls for some fancy coding that might be beyond the ability of the $75 tiny Guardian unit. It sounds like something that an Arduino autopilot could take on, someday.
Hi Roger,

Glad to see you around here.

The airspeed/gain coupling need not be linear. It can be as simple as a binary function around a specified airspeed, above which the gain is lowered.

Whilst a device can't save us from all pilot error, there are relatively minor features like airspeed/gain coupling that can return huge improvements in performance, safety margin and reduced pilot workload.
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 12:21 PM
LSF # 7390 IV
onethermal's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Joined Oct 2004
896 Posts
Hi Bill

I fly primary RES gliders and would like to know how would this unit work for rudder and elevator only.? and from the looks of the picture it looks like I would need to move the power leads from the ailerons over to a different plug like rudder.

So with all this response how soon do you anticipate shipping.

Thanks Clarence
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 03:59 PM
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Portland, Oregon
Joined Aug 2008
1,543 Posts
Quick Question:


Hi Guys... This looks like a great product for the price and features and I do have a question...


I'm presently using a new Feytech FY30A Aircraft stabilizer and simply love how it stabilizes for HD videos... It has what appears to be the same 3 axis mems gyros and and 3-axis accelerometer so I'm wondering if this new Guardian is similar to what I already have... I can see the gain adjustment from the Transmitter would be very nice as it is for my CP Heli's too...


The Guardian just looks like a more polished product and especially for it's FPV\OSD applications... I think I'll order one of these new Guardians for my 3D Edge 540T... I'm still in the process of reading this entire thread so sorry if someone has already answered this...


Happy flyin'
bnick
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 10:27 AM
Whats the wrst that can happn?
AdamChicago's Avatar
Chicago, IL USA
Joined May 2010
2,698 Posts
Does this or the expander offer a way to stabilize yaw using the rudder? I'd like to be able to stabilize roll with the ailerons while the rudder keeps the nose pointed in the right direction...is this possible on either the Guardian stand alone or the expander? FYI I have the expander now.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 05:13 PM
But often down to earth
Floater73's Avatar
Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
738 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamChicago View Post
Does this or the expander offer a way to stabilize yaw using the rudder? I'd like to be able to stabilize roll with the ailerons while the rudder keeps the nose pointed in the right direction...is this possible on either the Guardian stand alone or the expander? FYI I have the expander now.
The Guardian expander can't. The OSD only has channels for pitch and roll. There isn't a connection for yaw. For planes with ailerons we use the aileron channel to control the roll and the rudder channel isn't used. For rudder only planes we use the rudder channel. Both work very well. I don't know if someone has tried putting a heading hold gyro on the rudder and use the Guardian for the roll. That may be possible. It sounds interesting.

I don't know about the new Guardian 2D/3D. We need more info and the manual. Some 3 axis stabilizers only do rate gyro control of the yaw axis even in stable mode.

Steve
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 02:16 PM
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United States, CA, Ridgecrest
Joined Dec 2011
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I'm certainly going to buy one (or more). My goal is scale flying, which I'm going to try to achieve via low wing loading (for more realistic scale speeds) and gyro stabilization (to ameliorate the resulting wind effects).

Will I have to replace the cheap 9g servos in my foam planes with faster and/or more robust versions to handle the constant gyro inputs? If yes, then how do I choose?
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 02:33 PM
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tychoc's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Feb 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamChicago View Post
Does this or the expander offer a way to stabilize yaw using the rudder? I'd like to be able to stabilize roll with the ailerons while the rudder keeps the nose pointed in the right direction...is this possible on either the Guardian stand alone or the expander? FYI I have the expander now.
The standalone Guardian does control the yaw axis.
-tychoc
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Ordered!
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