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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:12 AM
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Sherlock's Avatar
Milwaukee, WI
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Originally Posted by Twizter68 View Post
The problem I see is that you can't often separate the possession charge from other charges; the statisticians use a catch-all, "drug-involved" and batch those in with the possession cases to make the numbers appear worse. The problem is, the possession charges are often on top of something else, assault, robbery, B&E, and so forth. It's all well and good to get pious and scream "That's Racist!" about incarceration rates, but you have to look at the crimes that accompany the relatively minor possession charges; I know when I worked for the SO in Georgia, possession charges were only add-ons to the major charges someone got pinched for, because at the times they were arrested, more often then not they were high or had dope on them.
For simple possession poor people and minorities get harsher sentences than white people and wealthier people do. Plenty of people are arrested for just possession so you can just look at that metric. You don't have to separate anything out.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Milwaukee, WI
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Originally Posted by Twizter68 View Post
And say if you legalize it...is that going to stop people from robbing and stealing to get the money to buy dope?

My guess is NOT.
Dope will be much cheaper so it will reduce it. You won't stop people robbing and stealing completely. They usually do it to spend money on something. I'm sure people spend their robbery money on cigarettes and alcohol but you don't hear them being connected.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:46 AM
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United States, TX, Weatherford
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I understand your point Sherlock, but simple possession, even with minorities recieving harsher sentences, is still short time, county jail stuff. I'm talking long-term +1 year lockups. As for dope getting cheaper...you sure about that? Legalize it, regulate it and tax it like booze and smokes...I don't see the cost coming down.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:50 AM
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United States, AR, McDougal
Joined Aug 2005
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It's all really simple, if you don't want to go to jail for selling drugs , DON'T SELL DRUGS.

It would be like ousting the dog to the backyard because the cat tore up the drapes.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:51 AM
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United States, TX, Weatherford
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Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
Dope will be much cheaper so it will reduce it. You won't stop people robbing and stealing completely. They usually do it to spend money on something. I'm sure people spend their robbery money on cigarettes and alcohol but you don't hear them being connected.
But WRT drugs, they ARE connected to other crimes as a statistical data point. In my county in GA (about 1000 years ago), 95% of robberies and B&E were drug related crimes. Now, the ones perpetrating those crimes, would still have been burglars and robbers without the dope (most were before they got into drugs; and before you start going off about it, I can say this with confidence because I GREW UP WITH THEM, and know how they were as kids), the drug involvement just made it easier to catch them. Face it, a stoner burglar makes a lot more mistakes and leaves more evidence than a "clean" burglar. We even caught one guy who decided to smoke a bowl AFTER he broke in, and fell asleep in the middle of looting the joint.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:56 AM
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United States, TX, Weatherford
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Originally Posted by 62pilot View Post
It's all really simple, if you don't want to go to jail for selling drugs , DON'T SELL DRUGS.

It would be like ousting the dog to the backyard because the cat tore up the drapes.
^^^this x1000
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:57 AM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
For simple possession poor people and minorities get harsher sentences than white people and wealthier people do.
I agree. Poor people can't afford the quality legal services that get rich people off with warnings or even dismissed altogether.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:02 AM
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United States, TX, Weatherford
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Got any stats on the crimes commited by rich whites vs. poor blacks? Offenders vs. population, type of crime, etc?

Could it be that lower income blacks commit more crimes than higher income whites?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:03 AM
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United States, OK, Anadarko
Joined Aug 2003
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Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
No, many people use drugs, not just the "welfare class". Poor people and minorities get harsher sentences than whites and wealthier people do.



Yes
I take it you have never seen section 8 housing... When people are not doing something constructive like a JOB they tend to do things that most consider crime.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:13 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by RCWorks View Post
I take it you have never seen section 8 housing... When people are not doing something constructive like a JOB they tend to do things that most consider crime.
Yeah sure... Your reason doesn't make sense, as retirement communities don't have such a high rate of crime.

It's got nothing to do with, nothing to do.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:50 AM
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United States, OK, Anadarko
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Yeah sure... Your reason doesn't make sense, as retirement communities don't have such a high rate of crime.

It's got nothing to do with, nothing to do.
Take in to full view the section 8 family....

No father, kids that are not watched... they learn bad habits that turn in to jailable offences... all because they had no structure in their lives other than collecting someone elses money.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:57 AM
Not THAT Ira
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Coupeville, Wa
Joined Jan 2006
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The so called "War On Drugs" has been an unmitigated disaster. It has cost hundreds of billions of dollars, corrupted entire governments, made the scum of the earth richer than most kings and more pointedly not even made a dent in accomplishing the stated goals.
A more troubling fact is that far more people have been killed in relation to the war on drugs than have ever been killed by the drugs themselves.


There are other hidden costs as well....

http://www.cjpf.org/11ways


Part of the problem is the attitude that if something is bad than government must get involved in trying to improve the situation. Sometimes this works but all to often it just makes things worse and government is very, very slow to shrink ANYTHING that it has gotten into that costs billions and employs tens of thousands.

Legal does not always = good.
Illegal does not always = bad.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:28 AM
Libertas in Infinitum
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by 62pilot View Post
It's all really simple, if you don't want to go to jail for selling drugs , DON'T SELL DRUGS.

It would be like ousting the dog to the backyard because the cat tore up the drapes.
True. The law should be changed to allow people to sell and consume drugs ... Much in the same way people are allowed to sell and consume alcohol and tobacco products.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:03 PM
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United States, TX, Weatherford
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
True. The law should be changed to allow people to sell and consume drugs ... Much in the same way people are allowed to sell and consume alcohol and tobacco products.
But where do you draw the line? At weed only, or do you legalize coke, heroin, X, ruffies, all of them?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:23 PM
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United States, OH, Brilliant
Joined Sep 2011
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What's really funny about this thread is that Logan didn't seem to care about civil rights at all... until Obama got elected.
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