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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:05 AM
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San Diego, CA
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See the Technical Info/FAQ page for the Super Sky Surfer at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6#post22886340

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutterspeed View Post
I was planning to maiden her in Santa Barbara at the beach this weekend, but.. screw that. I'm not waiting. If any of you are keen to check her out(or wear the second pair of goggles).. i'll be at the Balboa park/Valley Flyers RC field on Saturday(Oct 6th) around 11am.
Sounds like a plan! Go for it! (Film at 11? )

You might want to check a few things first - at least I found them amiss on mine.

1.) Two of my motor-mount bolts weren't tight. Quick and easy fix with a #1 Phillips screwdriver... but can cause problems if left loose. If they are loose on yours, of course.

2.) Mine came with two 8x6 props. BOTH were mis-formed, with the blades not 180 degrees from each other. More like 178. Now that's weird. Not horrible, but the vibration is noticeable. If I were you I'd stop by the hobby shop and pick up an APC 8x6E prop. Bolt it on and see if the vibration is reduced.

3.) Check to make sure your flaps cycle correctly, from up (even with the wing) to down (some 45% or so). In my ARF, the pushrods were too long, I had to clip and re-form them. At least one other poster with an ARF found this too. Sounds like yours is an RTF (you mentioned a battery), they may be installed correctly.

Tell me something: Are your flap control horns installed forward (holes even with the hinge line) or backward (holes about a half inch behind the hinge line)? It may be that backward is correct. I put mine on forward, and when I lower the flaps the forward edge of the control horn contacts the wing. I'm considering reversing the horns... which would mean I have to make new pushrods after clipping mine.

And, is your propeller perfectly even, parallel to the trailing edge of the wing? Mine, and at least one other poster's here, is noticeably tilted (around 5-7 degrees) so that it blows air back and to the right, not straight back. But my plane flies straight and true, both when powered and when gliding. It may be that this tilt to the right is deliberate, by design. I'm not going to take mine out. Does yours have such a tilt?

And, how easy is it to slide the big main spar into the wing tubes? Mine was VERY tough. I eventually sanded the spar down, now it fits much more easily. That's why God made belt sanders.

_________________________________

The Technical Info/FAQ page for the Super Sky Surfer can be found at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6#post22886340
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:20 AM
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San Diego, CA
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With the two 2s LiPo batteries (4000mAh, not 5000mAh, the 4000s fit better), dual plug harness, and removeable-tail parts, my SSS now weighs in at 81.8 ounces, or basically 5 lb. 2 ounces, with the solid spar that came with the plane (and I sanded down somewhat to make fit).

The CG (center of gravity, or balance point) has moved forward to a point 3-11/16" (93.7mm) behind the leading edge of the wing. That's a hair farther forward than the manual calls for (100mm). Planes usually have a range of acceptable values for the CG location, though this plane's manual mentions only one location, don't ask me why.

My plane used to be slightly tailheavy, and it handling was questionable. Now it's slightly noseheavy. That's usually better than tailheavy. I'm confident that this CG position will be nice and flyable (famous last words? ) . I'll find out soon. Will probably crank in a little extra up-elevator trim before the next flight, then take it out during flight as appropriate.

The carbon-fiber tube spar came in yesterday. It's VERY stiff, seems as much so as the solid spar that came with the plane, but a LOT lighter. I wonder if its breaking strength is as high as the solid spar? Hopefully will never find out.

It's somewhat easier to slide ito the wings, but still pretty tough (on mine, the solid spar was basically impossible until I fed it to the belt sander). This tubular one is at least better than that! I may sand the outer 12" of each end, CAREFULLY by hand, to make it fit more easily. Being a tube, this hollow spar has a lot less material to lose, this could be tricky.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 05:35 AM
Geezer
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Central Kentucky
Joined Oct 2006
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For those concerned about the ESC here is a new offering from HeadsUpRC that has a built in 6amp switchmode BEC.
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...er--45A/Detail
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 08:18 AM
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L-A, it seems very odd that both props are molded incorrectly. Those things are mass produced in (supposedly) precision molds. If both of yours are bad I suspect that there may be many others, but nobody else ha mentioned it. In any case they should be replaced by the manufacturer free of charge. Have you contacted them about it?

It sounds like you have solved your problem of the flap push-rods being too long if you installed the horns the wrong way. For most controls the holes in the horn should line up with the hinge to provide symmetrical throws but for flaps, which operate in just one direction, that is not the case. If turned around the stock push-rod length might correct after all.

The lateral offset in the motor mount is normal. That is done on a lot of planes. I am glad that you have not "fixed it" by cutting off foam as at least one builder did.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 09:29 AM
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USA, IL, Lake Forest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptondave View Post
L-A, it seems very odd that both props are molded incorrectly. Those things are mass produced in (supposedly) precision molds. If both of yours are bad I suspect that there may be many others, but nobody else ha mentioned it. In any case they should be replaced by the manufacturer free of charge. Have you contacted them about.
I think all of the props are like this, the ones in my ARF are that way, some others have mentioned this earlier in thread, thats the only reason why I checked they are still usable if you absolutely have to.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 11:38 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptondave View Post
L-A, it seems very odd that both props are molded incorrectly. Those things are mass produced in (supposedly) precision molds. If both of yours are bad I suspect that there may be many others, but nobody else ha mentioned it. In any case they should be replaced by the manufacturer free of charge. Have you contacted them about it?
Both of my props balanced perfectly. Just luck, I guess.
AJ
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 11:56 AM
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I never intended to us mine anyway.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:09 PM
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San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptondave View Post
L-A, it seems very odd that both props are molded incorrectly.
I fully agree. As I said, I haven't seen that since my Sleek Streek days. I was surprised to find it in my first SSS prop, and VERY surprised to find it in my second.

Quote:
Those things are mass produced in (supposedly) precision molds.
Yes, "supposedly". It seem inconceivable that the mold itself could have been mis-formed - making molds for anything is high art. Could it be that the company making the props was trying to lower costs by cranking them through as fast as possible, and was removing the finished prop from the mold before it was fully set, and the blades sagged slightly when they were "hung up to dry" or whatever they do?

Quote:
If both of yours are bad I suspect that there may be many others, but nobody else ha mentioned it.
So do I, but I had seen no other mentions before this morning. Now antennahead mentioned (after our posts) that he had also found both his propellers like that.

Maybe they ALL are? Or all the ones that came from this production batch anyway?

Quote:
In any case they should be replaced by the manufacturer free of charge.
Yes, they should. (snicker)

Quote:
Have you contacted them about it?
I love dealing with Banana Hobby on parts issues. Naw, I just chucked them. Picked up an APC 8x6E last night, to use as a spare or for comparison purposes if the present EMP 8x6 3-blade heats things up too much.

Quote:
It sounds like you have solved your problem of the flap push-rods being too long if you installed the horns the wrong way.
Actually I shortened the pushrods, then found out later that moving the control horn holes back was also a good idea. So I may regret clipping them. That's why I asked shutterspeed which way his flap horns were installed. Putting them on backward would look strange, but might actually kill two birds with one stone. It may turn out the designers were being smarter than I was (a not unusual situation).

Quote:
The lateral offset in the motor mount is normal. That is done on a lot of planes.
Yep, I've been fiddling with right thrust and downthrust for quite a while now in some Hobbyzone Champs, even did it to Sleek Streeks way back when.
( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6#post22694332 )

Quote:
I am glad that you have not "fixed it" by cutting off foam as at least one builder did.
Actually I was going to insert washers under the screws between the cross-shaped motor mount and the firewall, on the right side only. But when I found how straight the plane flew as-is, I decided not to. If it works, don't "fix" it.

The side thrust my plane has (and maybe all SSSs?) is clearly not part of the original design. Though the motor pod is obviously angled upward, it is perfectly symmetrical right-to-left. Only the plywood(?) firewall inside the pod, is angled to the side. And it's even offset to compensate, and keep the propeller (and rotating motor can) from getting too close to the inside of the pod. Looks like an after-the first-test-flights tweak. But as I said, if it works....
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickochet View Post
For those concerned about the ESC here is a new offering from HeadsUpRC that has a built in 6amp switchmode BEC.
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...er--45A/Detail
VERY good find!

The 60A ESC I just put in mine, produces 4A of BEC current, it says.

I had wondered how Blitz (or whoever) could have committed such an obvious screwup. As TheDon pointed out, the manual that comes with the plane says the two 40A ESCs available (I'm not sure which one is used in these planes, probably the cheaper linear-BEC one I would guess) are rated for 4 and 5 servos respectively, but the SSS has six.

Different servos draw different amounts of operating and stall current, generate different amounts of electrical noise etc. of course. Could it be that these BECs were rated for a certain number of "standard size" servos (which usually weigh around 55 grams I believe, I'm not sure how much current each draws), but the 17g ones in the SSS are smaller and draw less current? So the designers can get in under the wire with six without overtaxing the BEC? Well, that's guesswork anyway.

An overtaxed BEC might lower the voltage in the servos' (and receiver's) red wire when one or more servo is jammed or pushed too hard, resulting in weak or jittery behavior in all servos, and possibly loss of contact (or at least reduction of range) in the receiver. Bad news all around.

Has anyone seen such behavior in their SSS with the stock ESC?
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Both of my props balanced perfectly. Just luck, I guess.
AJ
My first one balanced too - that is, both blades were the same weight and moment arm. If you hang the prop horizontally on the balancer it sits perfectly level. But it vibrated anyway, and I kept looking at it, wondering why. Finally tried the straightedge trick ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t#post22893382 ) and bingo, there it was.

That's WEIRD.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 01:34 PM
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Va.Beach VA.
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LA, please check your SSS you Started. 2 BH Reps chimed in....
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 04:55 PM
what goes up, must come down..
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Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
770 is too low KV due to restricted diameter. I think the model is fine on the stock motor on 4S lipo instead of 3S and the Master airscrew 8 x 6 G/F series 3 prop (2blade). I still run the stock ESC (but added a BEC) and climbs out fine on this setup using a 4S 5000 lipo. I see no reason to abandon the stock motor when it is currently not being used to its potential and especially when most just want to add some extra power but not go overboard on excess power.
Thx Don
I was intending on 4S regardless, I'll swap out the esc & add a ubec and apc prop, then see how she performs at maiden... I'm thinking you may be on the money with the stock motor on 4S
Cheers!
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieHoppy View Post
Thx Don
I was intending on 4S regardless, I'll swap out the esc & add a ubec and apc prop, then see how she performs at maiden... I'm thinking you may be on the money with the stock motor on 4S
Cheers!
The instructions that came with the plane (mine anyway) say that the motor is run on a 3s LiPo. No mention of 4s. That doesn't mean 4s is PROHIBITED, I suppose. But if it was able to run on 4s, you'd think they'd mention it in the manual - it would be an advantage.

That said, I just put a harness in mine to run it on 4s (two 2s batteries from an R/C car in series), and I figure to keep doing it until and unless I find unusually high temperatures somewhere, or smoke.

The stock ESC could be either of two 40A units mentioned in the manual. One is rated for both 4s and 3s, the other mentions only 3s. My guess is that the latter one is probably less expensive, and so is probably the one that comes stock in our planes. You mentioned you had already put in a different one, so did I.

In my quest for a motor/ESC/battery combination that lets me fly the SSS in the slow and leisurely way that looks so nice most of the time, but do vertical climbs occasionally, I'll probably eventually wind up with a motor at or near 1000W, with a 5s or 6s battery and suitable ESC (maybe 100A or so to be on the safe side).

It might also be an ESC from an R/C car... because they have reverses. Flaps are cool looking on the SSS, but fairly ineffective, I've found - the plane floats forever on landing, with or without flaps extended, and glides very flat either way. I once put a reversing car ESC on another glider, but it was tricky to use since I couldn't tell when I was entering the reverse speed area. Will probably need a positive spring on the transmitter lever, or something like that. The idea is to steepen the glide for landing. It will be necessary to point the nose downward when using this reverse (something I don't generally like to do close to the ground), so the plane maintains SOME speed and doesn't suddenly fall out of the sky. May or may not work well, we'll see.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Willoughby, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
The instructions that came with the plane (mine anyway) say that the motor is run on a 3s LiPo. No mention of 4s.
Done with this thread
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 07:02 PM
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San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I don't know how many times I have seen people post on RCG that they will fly partial throttle (or program the end points on the throttle) to not exceed the amp rating of their ESC
Who does that? I've seen no such posts. Then again, I haven't read all posts on all RCGroups threads.

I fly at part throttle to keep my plane from disappearing into the clouds or tearing the wings off, as I've mentioned a number of times.

BTW, instantaneous amperage is unimportant as long as you don't exceed the ratings of individual components in your ESC. Right?

It's the cumulative effect (i.e. temperature) that matters, and that's a function mostly of instantaneous current through resistance, duty cycle... and velocity of charged armature components through magnetic fields or vice versa (i.e. motor speed and timing). Plus lesser effects of heat transfer capability of the assembly, mass and surface area of the heatsink(s), and airflow over it.
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