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Old Aug 14, 2015, 06:56 AM
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I have not been able to find the reference source again, but I read that Thomas Jefferson, in a letter, described the light color on an American ship as the color of cream. That's why I went light on Syren.
But cream color is variable:
"Cream produced by cattle (particularly Jersey cattle) grazing on natural pasture often contains some natural carotenoid pigments derived from the plants they eat; this gives the cream a slight yellow tone, hence the name of the yellowish-white color, cream. This is also the origin of butter's yellow color. Cream from goat's milk, or from cows fed indoors on grain or grain-based pellets, is white."
ref: Wikipedia
Guessing that cows of the day fed on pastures (grass), their cream would have been yellowish, but still very light. I doubt it would ever be as dark as typically seen on portrayals of ships of the period.
And the Jefferson letter referred to just one American ship. I guess going with the color that the Victory research indicates would be the best bet.
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Old Aug 15, 2015, 05:19 PM
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Just grist for the mill...

Trying to define a "period correct" color is not a exact science. As mentioned, officers with means (money) had the flexibility to enhance their commands as they saw fit. Maybe they wanted uniformity. Maybe they wanted to change colors to confuse their enemies. Maybe they had just painted the vessel and the colors were bright but faded over time.

I'm reminded of the American paint debacle that occurred over the house colors of colonial Williamsburg, Virginia. In the early 20th century, the "period correct" colors matched the faded tones found on the homes. Later in the century, "period correct" colors were without the sun fade that were richer and brighter.

Some artist were exacting in their details and others were less so.
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Old Sep 03, 2015, 07:36 AM
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From those who have converted to the rotary servos to run the braces is there an established diameter for the disks on the servo to be used and also an attachment measurement on the yards for the braces? It seems like the larger, "guide disk" diameter is @3" for the lower braces. trying to shorten the learning curve.
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Old Sep 04, 2015, 07:53 AM
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The drum diameter of a winch is based on the length of brace you want to pull and the number of rotations the winch makes.

The formulas and some discussion can be found In another thread
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Old Sep 05, 2015, 03:39 PM
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Sorry, I short changed the question. The formulas are clear. The variables can change. However we are all working from the same platform, the brig. It seems like some builders have worked through several iterations in the design of these servo assemblies. I was just asking where builders ended up as to disk diameters and brace placement on the yards. It would help with where to start.
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Old Sep 05, 2015, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruMatt View Post
Sorry, I short changed the question. The formulas are clear. The variables can change. However we are all working from the same platform, the brig. It seems like some builders have worked through several iterations in the design of these servo assemblies. I was just asking where builders ended up as to disk diameters and brace placement on the yards. It would help with where to start.
OK - I'll try to recap previous posts.
For brig Syren review, click on my name, "DanL, registered user" (to the upper left). Then on the right side you'll see a menu.
Click on "Find all attachments by DanL". Many there, but can be visually searched quickly. Look for drawings of the disc assemblies. Then click on the posts they are associated with. A lot of the Syren drum and brace info will be found.
Now the recap:
The size of the discs will be dependent on the length of the yards and the attachment point of the brace line on the yard, the path of the brace lines, the maximum angle of rotation of the yards, the point of rotation of the yards in front of the mast, the differential slack adjusting approach used, the slack trolley method used (if used), the stretch of the brace lines, the amount of rotation of the servos and the programmability of rotation by the TX.
These really are the factors - a lot of them. But from experience and many Syren drum re-do's, they all need to be considered.
The diameters are the last things to be determined after the following steps are done...trust me, each model will be different enough to require custom diameters.
The simplest approach is to 1) mount the yards (best to have the yard about 3/4 to an inch in front of the pivot point on the mast face - see previous posts on this). Measure rotation of the yards and be sure to get at least 50 degrees in order to get half-decent ability to tack and sail into the wind.
2) Determine the paths of the braces from the exact attachment points at the ends of the yards to the blocks on the opposite mast.
3) Tie off temporary brace lines (white nylon braided string) at the desired end location on the yards. Square the yards. Run the temp brace lines to the intended location of the brace blocks and secure.
Mark on the braces exactly where the braces will go thru the blocks when the yard is squared.
4) Rotate each yard in one direction to 50 degrees or whatever the max yard rotation. Snug up the temp braces with the yard at max rotation, and mark the temp braces with a marker at the point they intersect the block location.
5) Rotate the yard fully in the opposite direction and mark the temp braces as in 4) above.
6) Now you have marks on the temp braces that can be measured for length of travel required for full port and full starboard yard rotation from center. That length is what the servo will have to pull in each direction from center.
7) Now add a correction for line stretch. If you use nylon for braces, you will get more stretch than polyester lines. My pre-stretched home spun polyester lines have very low stretch (less than 5%).
I would use at least a 15% stretch addition (unless you know your braces will be low stretch). The measured length plus the correction is the brace length the servo needs to pull.
8) Decide how much rotation you can use out of your servo/Tx combination. With my servos, I can get over 4 rotations when the JR brand Tx is set for maximum servo travel. But I decided to use only about 3.8 rotations, or roughly 1.9 rotations in each direction from center.
9) Now, after determining the actual pull needed on each yard of your specific model, do the individual drum diameter calculations based on the actual servo rotations and the actual pull distances needed on each yard. Remember, with a 4 rotation servo, you need to get the pull from center to max rotation in one direction with 2 rotations.
10) It's really not hard to do...just takes patience cuz the actual drums shouldn't be calc'd and made til a lot of front end stuff is done first. But estimation calc's only get you in the very rough ballpark. And details like the exact attachment point of the braces on the yards, the center of rotation of the yards, the ratio of length of yards on the same drum assembly, how horizontal the brace paths are, etc really make the above approach necessary. Otherwise, you'll end up making multiple iterations of drums to get acceptable operation.

The latest drum/brace pull specs for Syren are in this post. It will be a starting point, but I really do suggest the above approach to get it right for your model. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...17&postcount=5
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Old Sep 06, 2015, 11:21 AM
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Thanks for the very comprehensive response. The electronics for me are the most intimidating part of this endeavor. The information on these posts is extremely valuable. I thought I had read them all but I admit to missing the one with the dimensions listed.
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Old Dec 26, 2015, 10:27 PM
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So generous of Tim to offer to come to Alabama with his magical part making machine thingy and a hand full of lanterns to assist me with my Surprise build.....those lanterns are as mandatory as working deck guns..I find it ridiculous to attempt to put into words my admiration of this build. The coppering ! What can be said...I really expected to see actual sheeting installed.. I cannot thank all the builders enough for your generousity with shareing your experience in this trade. It is an art and you folks are master's . lanterns ! I love um...Lol.
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Old Jan 08, 2016, 11:08 AM
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Ha! Would love to come and help. Unfortunately, it will have to be here, on the forum. : )

Will likely have a few lanterns to spare.

Kind regards
Tim
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 01:52 PM
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OK, feeling inspired. I sent out my hammock cranes for first proto parts. Can't wait to see how they turn out.

Tim
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Old Jan 23, 2016, 01:48 PM
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A lot of people have asked me about "printing" parts and "3D printers". All the parts that I have made for this model use a process known as SLA. It is a high-quality process that gives clean, detail on the parts. The parts are clean enough that I can usually simply paint or prime and they are ready for installation. As time is a valuable thing for me, its worth the extra dollars due to the time that is saved.

3D printing is a buzzword that is thrown around as some magical thing that produces quality, usable parts. The term is used to encompass anything that is made from a 3D file but there are different processes involved. SLA is more expensive but the quality and finish is 100 times better then one from a "printer". There is a place for the cost saving, rough parts but with such small detailed parts like the crests on my cannon barrels etc, its not for me. I was reminded when I received my first proto hammock cranes. I was hopeful that by now, these machines would be able to produce quality parts and save some money but...... I can't use these as the masters for casting in bronze. . : ( They will be fine for working out the positioning/layout but that's about it.





Lesson learned....again

Tim
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Old Jan 23, 2016, 04:13 PM
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don 't understand.....what are these made of, and why no good?........hmmmm.....
and earlier on you posted some fabulous photos of the victory.....where can i access them ? and probably there are even more where you got them...........thanks...
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Old Jan 23, 2016, 07:14 PM
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no Alabama road trip...dang it... but geez id definetly relieve ya of any lanterns you may have extra ! $ just let me know..crests on cannon ..freakin great..
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Old Jan 24, 2016, 02:07 PM
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Hi Vic,

The earlier post was from an article I stumbled on regarding the repainting of Victory. I'm guessing there's some more recent ones of her through the Portsmouth web site, maybe?

The hammock cranes are made of a strong plastic material. The reason I am not too happy with them is that they are very rough. Tried lightly sanding and priming one but it still didn't look so great. I'll post a comparison when I have the second batch here using my usual method. : )

Best
Tim
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