HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Mar 02, 2015, 08:09 PM
Expert Heli Crasher
Florida Heli's Avatar
Joined Jan 2014
1,791 Posts
Discussion
Tarot 450 Pro v2 FBL Build - 2015

I'm starting a new thread for the sake of accumulating current information about the Tarot 450 Pro v2 FBL and how to build it, and also to get information centralized in one place for this particular heli kit instead of scattered around. As I find nuggets of info in other threads and even elsewhere on the Internet, I will post that info here.

This will not be a build log per se, but an accumulation of information about this specific heli kit. It also will serve as a Tarot 450 FBL Q&A, I hope. As such, topics like component selection, general clone parts compatibility, upgrade parts, customizations, and similar build-related posts will not be considered thread hijacking or off point. If you need Tarot 450 Pro FBL info, please do not hesitate to post here. I hope there isn't too much talk of DFC, but I think it's inevitable. I did not select DFC, and I do not want DFC at this time, in part due to wanting to put it in scale fuselages where a low head might not be the best idea. Maybe later on another heli.

So, here we go.

My kit from Banggood arrived today. Yeah!

Banggood has conflicting information about the pinion gear. It does come with a 14 tooth pinion, and it even says it on the box, so Banggood needs to update their info. The teeth on the pinion and main gear are straight.

So far so good on the unboxing. The CF parts are flawless. All the bearings feel good with no slop and no crunching or grinding. I actually like that Tarot didn't even screw things together finger tight. It makes it perfectly obvious that we need to Loctite everything, and it makes it hard to forget when everything isn't even finger tight. Fit and finish on all the parts looks good.

I had to go to the auto parts store to get some new Loctite. Since when does a little tube of Loctite cost $6.99! That's robbery! Of course, I paid it.

I'm still waiting for other parts like servos, ESC, gold mini-KBAR, etc. I'll post a full parts list with links later. I'll start working on things like the head while I wait for the rest of the parts. It shouldn't be too much longer. Chinese New Year slowed everything down, but all of my parts have shipped now. Despite Chinese New Year, Banggood got the kit to me in only 3 weeks. That's a week longer than it usually takes to get things to me, but it's to be expected around Chinese New Year.

I'd like to put this heli into one of the two scale fuselages I have bought recently, but first, I need to get the kit together. Step 1: Build heli and make sure it flies correctly. Step 2: Consider how to mount it in a scale fuselage.

This will be my first build. Fortunately, CPO over on YouTube has done an awesome set of step-by-step videos for building this heli, in excruciating detail.

Here we go!

-Florida Heli-
Florida Heli is offline Find More Posts by Florida Heli
RCG Plus Member
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Mar 02, 2015, 08:40 PM
I failed to crash a heli once!
dteel's Avatar
United States, CA, El Cajon
Joined Mar 2014
2,099 Posts
Watching this thread!

I just ordered one of these helicopter kits today from Banggood. I've already made a good many of the equipment choices but I still had to pick up a few items. Some of the items I need I already ordered also from Banggood but as you recommend different orders.

I expect building this will be fun.
dteel is offline Find More Posts by dteel
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2015, 08:43 PM
Expert Heli Crasher
Florida Heli's Avatar
Joined Jan 2014
1,791 Posts
Consolidating purchase discussions from other places for reference:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Heli View Post
OK, it's time to buy an economical but decent quality 450 motor for the scale build. I found this:

http://www.banggood.com/Tarot-450-PR...-p-927451.html

Other suggestions? Hurry because Chinese New Year is coming next week!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
Here are three options, from HK, all with 4mm bearings. Not saying the Tarot motor doesn't have 4mm bearings - it probably does, since it takes a 3.5mm pinion.

NTM 3400kv



and the SK3 2700kv



The Rotorstar 3600kv looks promising too.



tho like the SK3 it's not available from the US warehouses yet. All three already have the 3.5mm bullets fitted, which I like.

The Tarot motor is a bit hot, at 3800kv if you're going to use it for scale flying.

My JR Forza kit came with a 3500kv NTM, and it seems like a great motor so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Heli View Post
NTM 3400Kv sold! I had $1 of reward points, and with the sale it was only $21.50 delivered from the USA West warehouse.

2Doggs ... is the GV8000 better than the gold mini? I still haven't really found out if it is better, for twice the price. It's $86 at Banggood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I'm not even sure it's better, but it's definitely not that much better, when you can get the Gold (yellow) Kbar for $27 shipped. Just think, for the difference, you could almost buy yourself three KST115's.....!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Heli View Post
Done. Gold KBAR on order. Thanks again.

Cheap but good tail servo? Come up with that one and I think I'm finished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I know you don't want to shell out for a 306g or a KST115, so the HK732MG would be a good choice. It's a Park size servo, so fits the 450 Pro mount without an adaptor, great torque. I have one on my 500 and it's been flawless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Heli View Post
Right or wrong I ordered a tail servo. Helipal called it a "Ferrari" LOL. I'm a sucker for marketing. I was also in a hurry to get it out of China before Cinese New Year next week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I've not come across the 315! As it says, it's aimed at cyclic use, since it's a bit lower-geared than the KST215 and 115, which claim 2.5kgcm @ 4.8v, 3.7kgcm @7.4v. I'd hate to rain on your parade, and it will still be good on the tail, but you could have got a 115 or 215 from Aloft in the US for about the same, depending on shipping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Heli View Post
I was afraid of that. Oh well. Live and learn. If it will work in this 450 scale fuselage with Tarot guts in it, then it will be OK. If I need to get something else, then I will. What am I looking for in the future? Less torque and more speed? Are the high voltage ratings relevant to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
Don't worry, it will work great in your scale heli! Normally, you can use a faster servo with less torque on the tail, and plastic gears are just fine. Even the KST115 and 215 have lots more torque than, say, Align 415's, so the 315, with even more torque, looks like a great cyclic servo. Who knows, maybe the 315 gears will fit the 115/215 and vice-versa, so the only difference will be the colour of the label!
-Florida Heli-
Florida Heli is offline Find More Posts by Florida Heli
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 03, 2015, 03:29 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2013
305 Posts
You will love this heli. I had the Tarot 450 pro for a number of years. Flew great, but I got the combo version. Everything was great.
If you need parts, eventully and you will, I got All my parts from Ebay dealer. GOGORC. Excellent service andn very fast shipping, still get all my Tarot 500 parts from there now.
Good luck will love to see pics. Enjoy
Diggiz is offline Find More Posts by Diggiz
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 03, 2015, 08:59 PM
Expert Heli Crasher
Florida Heli's Avatar
Joined Jan 2014
1,791 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dteel View Post
FH, what pinion gear are you going to buy or did you buy for your Tarot 450?
OK you knowledgeable builders out there. Help me out with my pinion. I found this and I am wondering if it is accurate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
You can hear the speed of your head and figure out where you need to be.

At 2,200 rpm the head is noisy and it takes a fair amount of pitch to hover. The head speed can bog down below critical stability speeds when you add pitch - no fun! Hovering is stable as long as you don't move the sticks much.

At 2,500 rpm the head begins to "sing" and smooth out. The head speed doesn't vary so much when you change pitch and the heli is docile. This is a good head speed for hovering and basic training.

At 3,000 rpm the head sounds serious and the heli jumps when you move the sticks. This is a good head speed for fast forward flight and aerobatics - but too touchy for hovering and close-in work.

At 3,300 rpm the head sounds angry and the heli changes direction quickly when you think about moving the sticks. This is a good head speed for 3D, scaring children draining your battery and heating your gear.
The Tarot 450 Pro FBL kit came with a 14T pinion in the box. I have a 3400Kv motor. I will be flying a large, heavy scale fuselage. Shouldn't I change pinions? How about an 11T pinion? Doing the math that would be 2750 head speed roughly?

I assume that dteel will not be flying a scale fuselage, and I think he has a 3800Kv motor. What pinion for him?

-Florida Heli-
Florida Heli is offline Find More Posts by Florida Heli
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 04, 2015, 02:52 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2013
305 Posts
I had the Tarot 3800kv motor which was a power house and my kit came with a 13T and that was pretty insane headpseed, If you going scale yes I would think 11T.
Diggiz is offline Find More Posts by Diggiz
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 07, 2015, 09:17 AM
I failed to crash a heli once!
dteel's Avatar
United States, CA, El Cajon
Joined Mar 2014
2,099 Posts
I chose the EMAX HL2215 3800KV for my Tarot 450 build and I intend to use a YEP 40A ESC.

Currently I'm planning on using EMAX ES09MD Digital Swash Servo for the cyclic and possibly the tail servo.

All these parts are on order but none arrived at this point so just dreaming.
dteel is offline Find More Posts by dteel
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2015, 06:16 PM
Registered User
jerseysgt's Avatar
Joined Nov 2014
18 Posts
Consider a set of the carbon fiber landing skids (tarot-rc-heli.com). Raises the tail just enough to cut down on tail strikes during landings.
jerseysgt is offline Find More Posts by jerseysgt
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 11, 2015, 01:18 PM
I failed to crash a heli once!
dteel's Avatar
United States, CA, El Cajon
Joined Mar 2014
2,099 Posts
I'm hearing some comments that indicate my idea to buy a 3800Kv motor for the Tarot 450 were not well thought out. Maybe I'll buy a set of motors and just change them out when I want to change head speed.

What motor would you suggest?
dteel is offline Find More Posts by dteel
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 11, 2015, 03:05 PM
Expert Heli Crasher
Florida Heli's Avatar
Joined Jan 2014
1,791 Posts
I hope someone will experience will post their thoughts. I know very little since this is my first 450 build.

My question is why not use a 3800 with a 12T pinion on it, or an 11T if the motor shaft is small enough? I would not want to run the head speed beyond the rating of whatever blades are in use. I wanted to use wood blades for a while, and I may still, but due to their fragility I would have to be careful with my speed so the head doesn't explode. I keep thinking of the guy with the Raptor 50 on YouTube running up the heli on the ground with negative pitch until the head quite literally explodes. I know some of these 3D guys run the head speed way up, probably way over the rated speed for their blades, but they seem to get away with it. Of course, you don't always hear about the failures. There are lots of exploding heli videos on YouTube.

Raptor 50 explosion (1 min 16 sec)


If you do think you want to try a different motor, 2Doggs linked to three motors that he recommended to me for the Tarot 450. I reposted it above. I didn't know which one was "best" so I got the one with the middle speed at 3400Kv. I'll try it with a 12T and see what happens.

-Florida Heli-
Florida Heli is offline Find More Posts by Florida Heli
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 11, 2015, 04:31 PM
I failed to crash a heli once!
dteel's Avatar
United States, CA, El Cajon
Joined Mar 2014
2,099 Posts
I think I'm going to order this motor from HK. It seems like a good choice. There are several motors advertised as Tarot 450 Pro V2 motors and they range up to 3800Kv. Considering this motor is a whopping $18 I'll buy it and just use it elsewhere if it turns out to be a bad idea.
dteel is offline Find More Posts by dteel
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 12, 2015, 10:38 AM
Registered User
Tucson, Az
Joined Feb 2007
10,536 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggiz View Post
I had the Tarot 3800kv motor which was a power house and my kit came with a 13T and that was pretty insane headpseed, If you going scale yes I would think 11T.
Do you have link for this motor ? i have a bird thinking about a stronger motor.
Thank you
dankar04 is offline Find More Posts by dankar04
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 2015, 07:32 PM
I failed to crash a heli once!
dteel's Avatar
United States, CA, El Cajon
Joined Mar 2014
2,099 Posts
I'm ready for my kit to arrive from BG!

I ordered on March 2nd so I suppose I have a bit to wait yet. I was tempted to click on the tracking button but managed to resist.
dteel is offline Find More Posts by dteel
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 2015, 07:42 PM
Expert Heli Crasher
Florida Heli's Avatar
Joined Jan 2014
1,791 Posts
Oh, go ahead and click on tracking. I know you don't like it, but you have nothing to loose and something to gain. It should lead you to the 17Track site. Once it shows up in the US, the USPS will track it to your mail box. I got one order yesterday, I have one order that has arrived at the post office for delivery tomorrow, and another one that is in Chicago clearing customs. My tail servo is still on the slow boat from China. They sent it registered <sigh> and that always slows it way down.

Be glad I am slightly ahead on this one. It's going to have a few bumps along the ride. For example, the Jesus Bolt is unacceptable. This tiny problem resulted in a 6 hour search and research to find out what other people do in this case.

I posted this in a dedicated thread, and I will repost it here for reference.

Why is it that every time I Google search something the only useful results come from the "other" RC heli site, which is down, and has been up and down all week, and which will continue to be up and down for the forseeable future?

I used a Google cached page from the "other" web site to get my answer. I figured I was not the only person to have this problem. Most others seem to get a bolt that is longer and cut it off. Others resort to bolts with full threads. However, these bolts are weakened significantly by the reduced bolt diameter where the threads are cut. The ideal bolt would be a "collared" or "shouldered" bolt.

From what I can find, two manufacturers do, in fact, make a collared M2x14, and people seek them out. One manufacturer is Hirobo. The other is Super Tiger. If you want US stock you have to pay the price. $1.34 each. Hirobo pricing.

I ordered 20 of the Super Tiger bolts from Taiwan for $6.50, but I got the last set in stock. These are the ones that I found people seeking out on the "other" web site:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161339811260

and US stock Hirobo:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I have four M2 nylon insert lock nuts sitting here, but they won't last long. Next time I order from some place, I'll be sure to add M2 nylon insert lock nuts to my order.

I hope this solves the problem once and for all. Based on my measurements, these bolts should reach exactly to the end of the nut. They may still be a tiny bit too short though. If they don't quite reach the end of the lock nut, then Align has a shouldered 15 mm bolt that should work, even though it's not for this specific application:

http://www.amain.com/align-m2-socket...450dfc/p233554

The 15 mm Align bolts for the split lock DFC head probably are the best solution even if they stick out a tiny bit, as long as the collar isn't too long. Does anyone have one of these bolts handy to verify that it is, in fact, a collared 15 mm bolt and how long the collar is? I'll order a set from AMain for a few bucks. Then I'll have the 14mm and the 15mm. I'll report which ever one works best.

I swear, a major portion of this hobby has become detective work because I'm a noob. Oh well, that can't last forever, right?

One thing I have learned in RC over the years is that you can never, ever have enough screws. At the flying field when I used to go out there on weekends, there was always someone walking around the pit area desperately trying to find someone with a particular size screw so he wouldn't be grounded for the rest of the day when one broke or fell out. I never discard any broken heli or part without stripping it of all screws first. I have two sets of 450 replacement screws on order right now. Adding these 14mm and 15mm to my parts bin will help build up my arsenal of screws so I don't have to go searching when a 12mm falls a bit short, like this one has, or when a collared bolt really would be best for strength.

[ENDSEARCH]

-Florida Heli-
Florida Heli is offline Find More Posts by Florida Heli
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 18, 2015, 01:07 AM
Registered User
USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Feb 2007
890 Posts
You might consider the SK3 2700 kv motor that is "intended" for a 4S power system on a 450, but run it on 3S. This is what I have in my 450Pro guts inside a Hughes 500 fuse like in your photo.

Here is my maiden YT:
Hughes 500E scale (3 min 41 sec)


I'm using 12T pinion on a 150T straight cut gear, and using a 0, 90,90,90,90 curve have a tached 2200 HS using woodie 350mm blades without any issue on tail strikes, etc.

I'm also only using an old Align 35 amp ESC with a 3amp switching UBEC powering the HS65MG cyclic and Futaba tail.

On the 500 fuse you will have issues getting enough weight forward I think. I had to use a 2200 and 1300 3s pack to get it to balance.

Subscribed...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dteel View Post
I'm hearing some comments that indicate my idea to buy a 3800Kv motor for the Tarot 450 were not well thought out. Maybe I'll buy a set of motors and just change them out when I want to change head speed.

What motor would you suggest?
Blade Crasher is offline Find More Posts by Blade Crasher
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale Tarot 450 pro v2 fbl with many upgrades, batteries,servos,carrying case, YurSoTall Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 1 Feb 17, 2015 03:07 AM
Discussion ALZRC 450 PRO V2 3G vs Tarot 450 PRO V2 FBL hot wings Mini Helis 11 Apr 17, 2013 07:53 AM
Help! Tarot 450 pro v2 FBL ZYX Flying_Amp Electric Heli Talk 4 Oct 20, 2012 07:51 PM
Discussion tarot 450 pro v2 fbl silver LiQuid*Xion Electric Heli Talk 12 May 20, 2012 02:47 PM