HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:03 PM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Discussion
3D Composite Models

Hey everyone, I'm really interested to get your take on this (especially from company representatives )

I fly 3D planes (3DHS, EF, PA) and also participate in F3F gliding. One of the key differences between these two sections of the RC world is the materials used to make the models. My F3F models are made from carbon and kevlar or fibreglass, whereas most 3D manufacturers use a combo of balsa wood, carbon, and ultracote covering. The only 3D companies I know of at the moment that are using composite are Comp ARF and Krill (there may be others but I'm not aware of them). However, both of these companies tailor in larger models, nothing in the 40 to 70 inch range (which is of course very popular looking at how large the threads are here for these sized planes).

So I'm just curious whether any 3D manufacturers have toyed with the idea of using composite, or thinking of using it in the future for their models.

A composite 3DHS 51 Slick or EF 48 MXS or PA Bandit would look great

Thanks
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:09 PM
EXTREME FLIGHT's Avatar
United States, GA, Cumming
Joined Feb 2004
2,304 Posts
A composite version of our 48" Extra EXP would probably have to sell for $600-$800 . I don't think there are many that would pay that much for this size model.
EXTREME FLIGHT is offline Find More Posts by EXTREME FLIGHT
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:18 PM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTREME FLIGHT View Post
A composite version of our 48" Extra EXP would probably have to sell for $600-$800 . I don't think there are many that would pay that much for this size model.
Woah, didn't realise it would cost that much! Although I would love to see a prototype one

Would the weight of it be similar to the current balsa one? My guess is that it would be slightly heavier.

Thanks
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:23 PM
EXTREME FLIGHT's Avatar
United States, GA, Cumming
Joined Feb 2004
2,304 Posts
It would be difficult to prototype without committing to production due to the costs of creating the molds. The biggest cost would be producing multiple mold sets for layup of the individual components.

In this size, it would be difficult to achieve the light weight of the built up wood airframes.
EXTREME FLIGHT is offline Find More Posts by EXTREME FLIGHT
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:26 PM
Irg
ol' yellow eyes is back
Irg's Avatar
Brooklyn, NY
Joined Apr 2009
7,647 Posts
plus I would imagine the composites are a pain to repair. I know my own attraction to the smaller planes is partly based on the fact that most repairs are a popsicle stick and epoxy affair.
Irg is offline Find More Posts by Irg
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:40 PM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTREME FLIGHT View Post
It would be difficult to prototype without committing to production due to the costs of creating the molds. The biggest cost would be producing multiple mold sets for layup of the individual components.

In this size, it would be difficult to achieve the light weight of the built up wood airframes.
I remember reading about someone who was in the production of an F3F glider. As the profits are very low and so are the production yields, he only made one mould (the gliders are usually hand-built by one person so only one mould is necessary). He sadly broke the mould and decide to not put his design into production because the mould was just too expensive to make again.

So as you say, the moulds would be very expensive especially for every little component!
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:41 PM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irg View Post
plus I would imagine the composites are a pain to repair. I know my own attraction to the smaller planes is partly based on the fact that most repairs are a popsicle stick and epoxy affair.
Indeed When my gliders break, I have to get someone to repair it. I can't mould carbon unfortunately
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:35 PM
zürich
Joined Jun 2008
1,074 Posts
as for the weight....the fuse can be done at similar weight. the rest would be more heavy, especially the wings.
the main advateges of composite planes are: appereance, oilresistence, precise shape, complicated shapes.....all not main criterias for smaller 3d planes.
then again, i would love to own a small composite plane....and if it would be for only looking at it. a jewel in the living room
what i personally would like too see at the smaller 3d planes is that the balsa has an uniderictional layer of cf both sides and would work in a sandwichsystem.
that would cost and weight some more, but this way the plane would be very stiff for long time.
at the very least it should be done at the ailerons and the elevator as these tend to bend (this is very usual even with the top brand, even new)
btw i own a krill thunder 3d, its only about 75inch and its an outstanding machine
long leng is offline Find More Posts by long leng
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:47 PM
EXTREME FLIGHT's Avatar
United States, GA, Cumming
Joined Feb 2004
2,304 Posts
It is also very expensive.
EXTREME FLIGHT is offline Find More Posts by EXTREME FLIGHT
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:49 PM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by long leng View Post
as for the weight....the fuse can be done at similar weight. the rest would be more heavy, especially the wings.
the main advateges of composite planes are: appereance, oilresistence, precise shape, complicated shapes.....all not main criterias for smaller 3d planes.
then again, i would love to own a small composite plane....and if it would be for only looking at it. a jewel in the living room
what i personally would like too see at the smaller 3d planes is that the balsa has an uniderictional layer of cf both sides and would work in a sandwichsystem.
that would cost and weight some more, but this way the plane would be very stiff for long time.
at the very least it should be done at the ailerons and the elevator as these tend to bend (this is very usual even with the top brand, even new)
btw i own a krill thunder 3d, its only about 75inch and its an outstanding machine
Great reply, thanks! Sound like some great ideas
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:50 PM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTREME FLIGHT View Post
It is also very expensive.
Haha, yes If money were no object...
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2012, 08:31 PM
K_B
1D Flyer
United States, AK, Anchorage
Joined Sep 2012
114 Posts
I think it'd be cool to have some sort of "hybrid" airframe if it meant a decent increase in strength. Or maybe that's just silly. I'm still suffering a little post-traumatic stress from crashing my first balsa plane the other day...
K_B is offline Find More Posts by K_B
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:08 AM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_B View Post
I think it'd be cool to have some sort of "hybrid" airframe if it meant a decent increase in strength. Or maybe that's just silly. I'm still suffering a little post-traumatic stress from crashing my first balsa plane the other day...
Sorry to hear that buddy I remember crashing my first balsa! Stupid me didn't check aileron direction and bam, my E-Flite t34 smashes into the deck

I remember it being a lovely warm Saturday afternoon in June. So I went to my LHS bought it and built to fly that evening at about 8pm. Get to the park, lovely sunset with a really nice bohemian atmosphere there and really pleased with getting the plane fixed up in just a few hours. So I take-off, and it starts rolling left, so I add some right stick and it rolls left even further and BAM, one minute later I was picking up pieces of balsa. Really ruined the weekend

But hey, it hasn't happened again so yippee!
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 04:48 PM
K_B
1D Flyer
United States, AK, Anchorage
Joined Sep 2012
114 Posts
Crashed mine on maiden as well. I had to make an emergency landing; landing gear runs through the fuse and gutted the plane like a fish when I clunked it in.

That's why I was thinking that some sort of carbon subframe structure might help. But then again, if you beef up one area, the next thing attached to that part takes the stress. For all I know, carbon might snap just as easy.
K_B is offline Find More Posts by K_B
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:24 PM
Pilot Francis 😄
RCPilot1234's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Brighton
Joined Jan 2012
1,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_B View Post
Crashed mine on maiden as well. I had to make an emergency landing; landing gear runs through the fuse and gutted the plane like a fish when I clunked it in.

That's why I was thinking that some sort of carbon subframe structure might help. But then again, if you beef up one area, the next thing attached to that part takes the stress. For all I know, carbon might snap just as easy.
That's a bummer As you say, it may just break the closest part.
RCPilot1234 is offline Find More Posts by RCPilot1234
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Finally! Durafly Junior Review
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Careful! Creation of bas-relief from 3d models aues CAD/CAM 10 Jan 02, 2013 06:58 AM
Sold 90mm Composite BAE Hawk and 90mm Composite L39 kclements Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 5 Sep 18, 2012 12:41 PM
Sold JS Models 3D Frenzy 50 FBL Airframe with TT .53 Redline/Align muffer HD Hucker Aircraft - Fuel - Helis (FS/W) 0 Apr 12, 2012 07:06 PM
For Sale AK MODELS 3D Freedom Built rickj12 Aircraft - Fuel - Airplanes (FS/W) 1 Feb 28, 2012 08:46 AM
Found Anyone have a MS Composite 3d plane kit or other foamie 3d kit......... mtdoramike Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 1 Feb 21, 2009 08:14 AM