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Old May 02, 2016, 02:03 AM
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Build Log
Aerotetris F-16 2200mm with JF120mm EDF

Hello everybody,

after I opened the kit on Friday evening I hereby start a build-threat to show progress and give room for discussion.

What I did since Friday:
- numbering and sorting of the parts (~10h for that)
- gluing together the slices of the fuselage from nose to frame #39 --> the bird is now 195cm tall
- gluing together the nose section (#1-#12) and the entire canopy (till #17)
- Analysis of the intake ducting:
  • intake area (front of #13) is 129cm²
  • the area is almost constant 130cm² (+-~2,5cm²) for #13-#23
  • minimum area (front of #22) is 127,2cm², maximum (front of #19) is 133,7cm²
  • from #23-#44 the cross section is a circle with a diameter of 130mm (132,7cm²)
  • angle of bottom line starting from intake is VERY flat --> almost no space for nose retract-mechanism

That's the actual progress. Will post some pics as soon as possible.

Some remarks/tips/hints:
  • I did glue the parts with foam safe CA and accelerator: very fast progress
  • part #38-10 is not cutted despite shown in the manual: scarfed in 5 minutes by hand
  • ventral fins and fins of missiles/bombs are extrodinary thin (~1mm ) - will cut them away and make them out of cardboard, depron or balsa
  • the wing root cross section is ~6mm thicker than the fuselage - no idea yet how to solve that
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Old May 02, 2016, 02:12 AM
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wow!
subscribed

Regards, Egor
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Old May 02, 2016, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeStyriaII View Post
JePe methode works for upgrading styrofoam kits - but for "tetris stuff" it´s not the best solution.
Why does parquet-paint work on soft (FlyFly/HobbyTopGun) Styropor but not on the harder Styrodur of the Tetris planes

Lately I used to build my planes from EPP without coating - so no experience with both methods. Wanted to try parquet-paint because of the fast drying and non toxic behavior (Built a lot with glass/carbon years ago and hated the long hardening time and work with gloves...).
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Old May 02, 2016, 03:21 AM
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parquet-paint vs. epoxy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. UD View Post
Why does parquet-paint work on soft (FlyFly/HobbyTopGun) Styropor but not on the harder Styrodur of the Tetris planes

Lately I used to build my planes from EPP without coating - so no experience with both methods. Wanted to try parquet-paint because of the fast drying and non toxic behavior (Built a lot with glass/carbon years ago and hated the long hardening time and work with gloves...).
Hi Mr.UD,
nice to here from your fast progress
Show us pictures

Why parquet-paint with glass tissue is not so advantageous here:
- It produces only a smooth surface.
- It does not bring stability.
- If one then grinds the coated fabric, it is fraying.
- It hardens only the surface - but not the structure.
- Processing proceeds somewhat easier than with epoxy, but is actually not much faster.

Thats my experience after test and work on different builds

Regards, George
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Old May 02, 2016, 06:40 AM
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...do you mix Thixo and/or Microballoons into the epoxy or do you use it pure?
In my experience (with 180g/m² !) covering with glass/epoxy needs tons of filler to get a smooth surface - is 25g/m² that much better?
How much epoxy did your MiG consume? (roundabout)
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Old May 02, 2016, 07:53 AM
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Hi,
i use good epoxy. The cheaper epoxy and that one, with faster drying time - that works not so good.

First i use one layer of 80g/m² glass tissue.
After about one day i cut away the rest of the tissue.
Than i sand the surface with about 80grind and some drops of water!
That needs only 5 min for a wing and should only bring away little hairs or other small particels. Only little sanding! Fast and easy with some drops of water.

Now i can see the smooth structure from the 80g/m² glass tissue on the surface.
But than i use a second layer of glass tissue. Now with 49g/m² and epoxy.
Same procedure.
And after little sanding with some drops of water - my wing is ready for painting or covering with film.

If you use a third layer with glass tissue (49g) and epoxy - the surface gets very smooth and shiny.

How much epoxy is needed?: about the same weight as the cut glass tissue weights.

On the wing of my tetris MiG29/35 i noted the weight before and after every layer of glassing.
With the first layer of 80g/ m² tissue it gets 80g heavier
With the second layer of tissue - now with 49g/m² - it gets about 50g heavier.

We use this procedure on the last 5 builds of tetris planes

Regards, George
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Old May 02, 2016, 08:40 AM
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I once used R&G Epoxy L / Hardener EPH 161 for laminating planes - whats your choice?
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Old May 03, 2016, 12:54 AM
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...sorry to say Egor, but I guess your CAD guy messed up the fuselage-wing connection
The wing root cross section is ~6mm thicker than the fuselage - so he modified the wing to the desired cross section but did not modify the fuselage as it would have been necessary.
No idea at the moment how to solve the problem:
  • building a complete new wing with thinner root
  • modify the fuselage by filling the gape (would create a huge bulge at the top and the bottom )
  • moving the wing downwards to make the top of the wing flush with fuselage (filling the gap at the bottom which is easier than at the top, but that also creates a step at the leading edge)
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Old May 03, 2016, 06:39 AM
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hi MrUd
photo?
BR Egor
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Old May 03, 2016, 07:16 AM
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Wing root / fuselage

Egor,
I tried to point this problem to you when you first posted the F16 pictures. I picked up on the fact that in the pictures the wing root does not bend well into the fuselage and asked you to take close up pictures of the wing / fuselage intersection. You replied that everything is ok and there is no problem.
We'll wait to hear from you on solving this issue.
BR
Solly
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Old May 03, 2016, 07:20 AM
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Wing

Mario,
I think modifying the wing will be best.
If Tetris modifies the wing root chord to match the fuselage what % of RG15 would that be? Are we going to lose the RG15 benefits when it becomes very thin. We'll probably need to reduce the wing tip thickness?
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Old May 03, 2016, 07:35 AM
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hi Solly, hi mrUD
please show on the photo problem areas.
and show your photos these areas.
Regards, Egor
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Old May 03, 2016, 08:33 AM
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OK,here we are:

marked the critical area at your Picture, Egor. Could have seen it before, but was to excited about the wholesome look of this bird

First two pictures I did are when the bottom of the wing is mounted flush with the underside of the fuselage joint:
The upper side of the wing at maximum thickness is about 10mm higher than the fuselage - as well as the leading edge of the wing (see second picture) is well above the leading edge of the LERX

Second two pictures show when the wing is positioned that the top of the wing is flush with the fuselage and both leading edges (wing and LERX) are inline:
the bottom of the wing protrudes ~11mm below the fuselage joint.

The wing-fuselage joint has a thickness of about 44mm where the wing has ist Maximum thickness: keeping the length of the wing root at this station (590mm) in mind a max thickness of 7,45% would be possible. But that doesnt take into account the vertical Position of the leading edge of the LERX.

I guess I will mount the wing top flush with the fuselage and fill the bottom with foam: not beautiful but a fast solution
Anyway Egor: ist a beautiful bird and a great work of art that you made
(Dont want to think about all the modifications I had to do to make all these expensive RTF-planes fly )

PS.: sorry for the bad pictures! The slices are not glued together yet and therefore I cant lay down the fuselage horizontaly - which only allows crude camera angles
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Old May 03, 2016, 08:48 AM
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Thanks for the photos!
we CAD-master think about the solution of this problem.
the main problem is not compliance with the root rib to the fuselage?
we can produce individual parts and I will send their customers F16
(Yes, it is a pilot version and you, my customers - trailblazers in this field)
we need a clear understanding of what needs to be done.
Best Regards, Egor
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Old May 03, 2016, 08:53 AM
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...thank you for your fast Response Egor!!! THATS customer Service

Let me think a bit of what might be the best solution for the serial-production
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