HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:57 PM
Registered User
Horseman's Avatar
The Netherlands, FR
Joined Aug 2008
618 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
Before beating yourself up, does your landing gear collapse to the same angle as the landed AH-64? If not, the body will be slightly tipped aft and your mast will not be perpendicular to the ground. Just checking. Take care.

Don
Hi Don,

Hmm you have a point there I will check that

Regards,

Jan,
Horseman is offline Find More Posts by Horseman
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:07 AM
Registered User
Horseman's Avatar
The Netherlands, FR
Joined Aug 2008
618 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
Hi Don,

Hmm you have a point there I will check that

Regards,

Jan,
Hi Don,

I have take a look at it and even when the tail gear are (its not) in the right angle its still tipped backwards.
Even when the aft gear extends all out its barely vertical.
But looking at the main-shaft its bending forwards in comparison with the cockpit / doghouse or how you call it? but its not enough and it was almost good as I remember, so why its now changed

Its not really a big deal but its also fun to fix this.

Jan,
Horseman is offline Find More Posts by Horseman
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:16 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,380 Posts
Ok, I was just having you check to make sure that it is tipped back when in the proper location. Maybe a hard landing settled things inside or if there was a slight mis-alignment from the front mount - mid mount - tail mount, vibrations may have settled one of them. Although the wood parts of a lot of these new birds are laser cut, they are not heavy duty plywood and spacers formed from them can easily collapse (seen this in my Jet Ranger) so maybe some replacements are needed made from 4 or 5 ply birch? It's almost like you need to have the landing gear just move rather than have any shock absorbing from taxi angle to full flying angle and forget about whether it functions like the real thing. At least that way, you know you are on the correct angle for take-off and taxi so there will be no tendency for the heli to "back up" while spooling up. Just thinking out loud there. I see you have the adjustabe torque tube drive so shimming the back end of the chassis a bit higher should not be too, too hard. You may want to see if a stiffener along the bottom of the chassis mounting area to the tail area would help prevent sag. Again, just thinking out loud. Of all the tail blade systems I have seen modeled, yours seems to be the most simple and rugged of the "X" blade rotors. I have now really looked at how you did it and I know where a few of those tail grips are stashed. Take care.

Don
Keyrigger is online now Find More Posts by Keyrigger
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:22 AM
Registered User
Horseman's Avatar
The Netherlands, FR
Joined Aug 2008
618 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
Ok, I was just having you check to make sure that it is tipped back when in the proper location. Maybe a hard landing settled things inside or if there was a slight mis-alignment from the front mount - mid mount - tail mount, vibrations may have settled one of them. Although the wood parts of a lot of these new birds are laser cut, they are not heavy duty plywood and spacers formed from them can easily collapse (seen this in my Jet Ranger) so maybe some replacements are needed made from 4 or 5 ply birch? It's almost like you need to have the landing gear just move rather than have any shock absorbing from taxi angle to full flying angle and forget about whether it functions like the real thing. At least that way, you know you are on the correct angle for take-off and taxi so there will be no tendency for the heli to "back up" while spooling up. Just thinking out loud there. I see you have the adjustabe torque tube drive so shimming the back end of the chassis a bit higher should not be too, too hard. You may want to see if a stiffener along the bottom of the chassis mounting area to the tail area would help prevent sag. Again, just thinking out loud. Of all the tail blade systems I have seen modeled, yours seems to be the most simple and rugged of the "X" blade rotors. I have now really looked at how you did it and I know where a few of those tail grips are stashed. Take care.

Don
Hi Don,

Thanks for your input .

I have take out the mechanics last night and as you said shimming the back end of the chassis a bit higher and is done with nylon bushes 5mm high.


And that a lot I can tell..



Then I also adjusted the tail gear so now its always extended.


And that's also helping,

The frame inside the fuse are a bit reinforced at the back, so its holding the mechanics a bit better at the same angle.



Photo is not that explainable sorry.


But after mounting the mechanics its looks dramatically better,


But I also need to lower the aft raised tail boom because when the front mech are tilted more upwards at the back the horizontal boom must move upwards to at the back of the mech causing the aft raised tail boom to lower.


Because its a real pain to adjust the hole lot if I adjusted the tail-roter head output I simple grind the hole in the side of the tail fin larger.



When its fly by with 80km/u nobody will see it

Well it became a bit late this morning but I'm happy with the results.
It has not test flown (the neighbors and for sure my wife) would have kill me .
And it was dark and freezing cold.



I think that taking off will be a lot easier now because the Apache was always tending to move backwards. Not a real problem, you get used to it, however this looks much better and I had to do it.

Regards,

Jan,
Horseman is offline Find More Posts by Horseman
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:28 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,380 Posts
That looks sorted out. Good luck with the test flight.

Don
Keyrigger is online now Find More Posts by Keyrigger
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2012, 12:48 PM
Registered User
topgearuk's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2003
3,272 Posts
Looking even more awesome!
topgearuk is offline Find More Posts by topgearuk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:23 PM
My other addiction!
norcalheli's Avatar
Marysville, Ca., US
Joined Jan 2007
1,650 Posts
Beautiful job, Jan.
norcalheli is offline Find More Posts by norcalheli
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:08 AM
Registered User
Horseman's Avatar
The Netherlands, FR
Joined Aug 2008
618 Posts
Thanks Guys

I have done some hovering because flying was not possible due the bad wind circumstances but taxiing are fun to do now, just pulling the tail-gear from the ground and the rolling starts.
And the most important issue the lift of is now great. It just take off with a tendency to go forwards instead of backwards

So mission accomplished.

Greetings from a rainy, windy, Grey, unpleasant Holland.

Jan,
Horseman is offline Find More Posts by Horseman
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:58 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,380 Posts
We have the same weather system here, it seems. Wet, windy, and miserable. Good to hear the real flying can start when the weather co-operates. Take care.

Don
Keyrigger is online now Find More Posts by Keyrigger
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:42 PM
Registered User
Sweden, Gothenburg
Joined Aug 2005
811 Posts
Never been a fan of the Apache but think im gone change mine opinion now, looks real good, nice to hear that the behaviour also is to yours satisfaction.

Cheers
Jack
viggen65 is offline Find More Posts by viggen65
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:11 PM
flying is everything
jdm2ner's Avatar
United States, FL, Hollywood
Joined Oct 2010
261 Posts
im have been into helis for about 2 years but have never done a 4 bladed head and tail and i want to do it on this heli. as of right now my 600 has a stock motor with a castle 100 esc a castle 20 pro bec and all stock servos. my gyro will be a AR7200BX 7CH DSMX Flybarless Control System. my question is what motor. main gear, pinion gear, head, blades well just about everything i will need to do this plus rx settings like pitch curve, th curve swash mix so on an so on if anyone can help me out please. I have always wanted to do this but never had a chance to do it.
jdm2ner is offline Find More Posts by jdm2ner
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2013, 05:38 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2012
221 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2ner View Post
im have been into helis for about 2 years but have never done a 4 bladed head and tail and i want to do it on this heli. as of right now my 600 has a stock motor with a castle 100 esc a castle 20 pro bec and all stock servos. my gyro will be a AR7200BX 7CH DSMX Flybarless Control System. my question is what motor. main gear, pinion gear, head, blades well just about everything i will need to do this plus rx settings like pitch curve, th curve swash mix so on an so on if anyone can help me out please. I have always wanted to do this but never had a chance to do it.
For my apache,

a 4 blade head with torque driven tail rotor inc smartmodel raised tail unit & 5deg angled output unit requires a lot more torque than stock align motor will deliver, so you will need a better power train.:
120A HV ESC
500/550kv motor
14-15T PINION (6mm shaft)
1x 6 cell 1 x 4 cell 4200mah lipo (10 cell total)
stock servos are fine. u will not be performing hard 3d...i hope.

Pitch, well, that really depends on what blades you are using and how much lift is generated.

i went from using wide chord soft scale blades which required minimal 5+ / 3- deg pitch, then when i went to stiff thin chord semi symmetrical blades i had to increase my + pitch to 7up, and 5-down.

i run a 1600rpm headspeed. thats high for a scale machine, but the performance is much better than when using a lower headspeed.

Hope this helps some. bear in mind you are going to need to spend a lot of money to tune your heli, as did horseman and i, as you realize along the way that nothing is straight forward simplicity. theres a huge amount of teething problems that come into play when you are setting up but once you have her flying correctly it all seems like a dream.
JayNZ is offline Find More Posts by JayNZ
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 07, 2013, 05:48 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2008
131 Posts
Hey guys,
It's been awhile!

I finally have her flying without fuse yet and still working on the 4 blade tail. (trying to secure the tail gear on the shaft with a pin so I have to drill a very strait and small hole.)
I test flew her this whole week. she fly's pretty good I have to say. I will have to tinker with the Governor as it is bogging on high fast pitch. I have never used one before. and the skookum has one build in.
I have a 12 degree pos pitch, she does not lift very fast and you can hear the motor trying to pull its part. is this normal in scale?
I am using a 13 tooth pinion, might try a 14 or 15. All electrics are cool to the touch after 11 min flights with 2 5cell 3800 lipos. but thats outside the fuse were it gets air.
I have to say after a little over a year it feels really good to get her up in the air!!!!
Hope all is well with Jay and Horseman.
buddertoast is offline Find More Posts by buddertoast
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 08, 2013, 04:18 AM
Registered User
Horseman's Avatar
The Netherlands, FR
Joined Aug 2008
618 Posts
Hi Bud,

All is fine with me thanks,
You wrote (trying to secure the tail gear on the shaft with a pin so I have to drill a very strait and small hole.)
I did not drill a hole at all I just glued the gear with CA glue and its holding great.
Regarding the heat build up, well if I was you (I'm not) it check the heat directly on the motor, esc and battery's.

I'm struggling with my blades at the moment and I have found that the TF blades are indeed bend as Jay already told me because he mentioned that the way I stored the blades on the Apache can cause that problem.



This one of the blades and they are all four of them bend like this one.



So I have used two other sets off indentical blades and used them as a fourblade set and now the shaking is gone.



So I will order a set of Spinblades in the near future as Jay suggested me a wile ago.

Greetings from Holland,

Jan,
Horseman is offline Find More Posts by Horseman
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 08, 2013, 06:06 AM
Registered User
topgearuk's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2003
3,272 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman View Post

So I will order a set of Spinblades in the near future as Jay suggested me a wile ago.

Greetings from Holland,

Jan,
+1 On the spinblades, they do great scale versions.. I have used both for 450 and 600 trex versions.. The 450 are perfect, while the 600 are almost.. Great stability and longer flying times, my only criticism is the cord on the 600's it's massive and totally un-scale like.. That's the only downside it has.. I'm spinning the 600's at 1500rpm on a 2 blade head in my scale fuz and getting 14 mins flying time
topgearuk is offline Find More Posts by topgearuk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Smartmodel Apache AH64 + T-Rex 600 ESP Hummerfresse Scale Helicopters 33 Feb 18, 2012 12:47 PM
For Sale SYMA S009G AH-64 Apache 3 Channel Indoor Helicopter with Gyroscope $25.00 Shipped! Hellihawk Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 2 Jul 06, 2011 03:13 AM
Discussion 1st Look: HeliArtist 500 Size AH-64 Apache Fuselage BlackTitanium Scale Helicopters 18 Jan 16, 2010 03:14 AM
Rant AirHogs Reflex AH-64 3ch vs. other AH-64 Apache 3ch Sandbox\Hangar Jay-viator Micro Ready-to-Fly 56 Feb 01, 2009 04:21 PM
Video AH-64 Apache 450 size darthdrk Electric Heli Talk 3 Aug 07, 2008 12:37 AM