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Old Dec 01, 2015, 11:25 PM
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The Icarus Rover Max

Just tossing this idea out for picking.

The pictures should explain most of the concept.
A powered glider or glider with a quad on top.

The mast would use a ball and socket joint.

The ball and socket joint would need to be in the central balance point between the batteries and quad frame + motors in order to tip freely.

The Quad could be set up as a pusher or puller.

A puller is preferred as the quad and glider could detach (the glider could dive and the quad motors could pull up) in order to divert in a malfunction. The glider could also pop a chute if damaged.

As for CG placement and Flight Controller mixing I am as lost as a cat in a Chinese Restaurant.

Thanks to Hobby Kings Black Friday sales I could buy all of the required parts to build an RC model(including a 3d printer ) Right now I am just waiting on boxes.

I would love to post results here because of the ridiculously detailed and insightful replies.

Any and all feedback is helpful so thanks in advance!

Incredible watch: 30 years of failure, Ran D. St. Clair talks about the evolution of VTOLS
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Last edited by TeamJoby; Dec 05, 2015 at 11:42 PM.
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Old Dec 02, 2015, 10:05 AM
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Your'e going to need to keep explaining. What is the point of all this? How is it used operationally. Does the quad lift the glider to altitude and then let it go? Does the quad stay with the glider and push it forward through the air.

The picture is clear enough but the drawings are a mystery. It looks vaguely like a quad over a hang glider.
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Old Dec 02, 2015, 01:03 PM
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The quad is attached and would remain attached for horizontal flight.

It is connected via a ball and socket joint on the top of the mast.

In the event of a malfunction, the joint in the mast could be detached.
(exploding nuts?)

The hang glider pictures display a possibility of an ultra-light for low-speed flight.
They are really more for explanation in this thread.

The point of it all: Elon Musk on Vtols
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Old Dec 02, 2015, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamJoby View Post
The quad is attached and would remain attached for horizontal flight.

It is connected via a ball and socket joint on the top of the mast.

In the event of a malfunction, the joint in the mast could be detached.
(exploding nuts?)

The hang glider pictures display a possibility of an ultra-light for low-speed flight.
They are really more for explanation in this thread.

The point of it all: Elon Musk on Vtols
Your Elon Musk Vtol link does not seem to work.

I still don't know what you are trying to accomplish. If you just want to lift or tow the glider then you might as well use a rope. If the ball link is at the top of the pole then pulling forward with the quad will impart a large nose down torqe on the glider.
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Old Dec 02, 2015, 05:20 PM
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The link should be working now. He starts at about 1:46.

The mast in the pictures are a bit exaggerated. The quad would be a replacement for a motor on a powered glider.

Since the main batteries would be attached at this point too the craft would be tail heavy.
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Old Dec 05, 2015, 06:25 PM
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I hope these renders make things clearer.

The motors, esc's, and props are here, but the CF tubes and Glider are still in the mail.

The 3D printer is back ordered so the extra parts will have to be purchased from someone else with a printer.
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Old Dec 05, 2015, 07:16 PM
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I wish you luck, but you are going at this in such a strange way... Well at the very least, it should be educational...
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Old Dec 07, 2015, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamJoby View Post
I hope these renders make things clearer...
I'm afraid they do
In forward flight your thrust line is very high. It'll act like down elevator trim pushing the nose down.

You with Joby Aviation?
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Old Dec 07, 2015, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran D. St. Clair View Post
If the ball link is at the top of the pole then pulling forward with the quad will impart a large nose down torque on the glider.
RCvertt: "In forward flight, your thrust line is very high. It'll act like down elevator trim pushing the nose down."

That makes perfect sense and the only simple solution I can think of right now is to mix the aileron and elevator servos so that they pull/pitch up. The quad could be mixed to do the same.

The purpose of horizontal flight is efficiency and I know this "solution" would counter that purpose, but without a more exotic design it is all I have got for now.

The plane and CF rods are in now.
I am going to need to get the motor mounts, joint for CF rods (in the middle of the quad) and the boom printed by someone else with a 3D printer.

RCvertt: "You with Joby Aviation?"

I hope some day they will need an Electronics Engineer and that they choose me, but for now I need to get through freshman year.
First-semester finals are this week so wish me some sleep and sanity .
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Old Dec 07, 2015, 11:29 PM
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Did you do CFD? I wonder how bad the mast will wobble, perhaps you could use a couple of tubes as wire guides and stretch out a good amount of high strength fishing line so you can safely test forward flight on a controlled path? Just a thought... or wind tunnel....
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Old Dec 08, 2015, 07:18 AM
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...I hope some day they will need an Electronics Engineer and that they choose me, but for now I need to get through freshman year.
First-semester finals are this week so wish me some sleep and sanity .
You'll learn a lot during this build which is what it's all about. I'm sure you'll get where you want to be. Get some rest and good luck with your exams though I'm sure you'll do just fine. Your 3D renderings skills look good as well.
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Old Dec 08, 2015, 11:18 AM
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When you get done trying this concept, you have all the parts necessary to make a much more practical and functional design.

Just split your quad in two with 2 motors on each end of two separate booms. Mount these booms to the bottom surface of the glider wing about half way out from the center. That will give you one motor in front of the wing, and one motor behind. Set it up so the two motors are equal distances from the glider CG which is roughly at the 1/3 chord line.

That will give you a classic SLT (Separate Lift Thrust) design, where the quad makes it hover, and the forward thrust motor makes it fly like an airplane. For better efficiency you can set it up so the lift props stop in line with the airflow for reduced drag, but it is not absolutely necessary.

This video demonstrates the concept:

Multiplex Fun Cub Quad Copter (3 min 16 sec)
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Old Dec 14, 2015, 04:28 PM
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I much prefer this design of yours.
The only Improvement I can see would be placing the motors on different levels, one pair above the wing and one pair below.
This would increase the efficiency due to less turbulence in the incoming air.
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Old Dec 14, 2015, 04:49 PM
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I much prefer this design of yours.
The only Improvement I can see would be placing the motors on different levels, one pair above the wing and one pair below.
This would increase the efficiency due to less turbulence in the incoming air.
Sure, the VTOL Bixler was my first really successful VTOL concept. It works fine, but has the following disadvantages compared to the VTOL FunCub.

1. The tilting motor mounts are harder to make.
2. The fixed pitch props have a low pitch as required for hovering, which means they are too low a pitch to be efficient in forward flight.
3. While it saves the weight of an extra ESC, motor and prop, it does cary the additional weight of two moderately powerful tilt servos and the 4 tilting motor mounts.
4. Ultimately it is just a bit more complex to build and set up. Beginners need simplicity and experts appreciate it for the lower total cost over the life of the aircraft.
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Old Dec 14, 2015, 04:56 PM
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After getting these motor mounts 3D printed I decided more effort should go into designing them.
The current printed motor mounts would glue into the inside of the CF(Carbon Fiber) tubes.
They would hopefully break in the center (around the shaft) to prevent damage to the motors or CF props.

While this design should work I wanted to ensure the safety of the motors and props more and increase the reusability of the tubes.

The newer design should do both of these things:
1. Break off when the motor hits the ground hard enough.
2. Allow for easy attachment and removal.

The new design can be slipped on and off like a sock.
A hose clamp around the "sock" would clamp the sock onto the "foot".
The part should also snap at the thin region.
Now to see if anyone can print it.
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