I'm looking for a recommendation for my 2nd sailplane.

I currently have a Graupner Elektro Junior S (similar to a Radian Pro) - she is about wore out after a year of me & my thumbs.

I really like the EJS, but I think I would like to try a non-foamie. Looking for an ARF 2M (or bigger) fiberglass body - with the "electric winch" in the nose.

I currently have ailerons (programmed up as spoilerons for landing) & would like to get ailerons & flaps, if thats possible in a lower price range - $200 ish ...

Not really looking for a hotliner/aerobatic/slope soarer - just something that thermals nicely with some wind.

Any input/thoughts from you experienced pilots will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Tim

Tim,

Congratulations on your advancing position in the Big Sky contest. Looking good!

There is not going to be much selection for a glass fuse full house electric glider ARF under $200. That is foam and wood country. But we will look around.


Fiberglass fuse. Must be glass? Why not wood? Why not carbon or kevlar or plastic?


Will you modify a pure glider to make it electric?
Consider Spirit Elite
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAVR0&P=7

Why not foam? Not pushing it, just trying to understand your interests.
Radian Pro? Horizon hobby


Definately not a kit?


That should give you some things to think about.

Look for terms like thermal, F5J, LMR, limited motor run, Altitude Limited Electric Soaring or ALES as part of the description. There are all thermal soaring type glider descriptions for electric gliders. Those not containing at least one of these terms might be hotliners or slope gliders.


here are some to consider, though perhaps more than you budgeted

http://icare-rc.com/avia.htm

http://icare-rc.com/magellan_e.htm

http://www.soaringusa.com/products/p...ategory_id=267

http://www.soaringusa.com/products/p...ategory_id=267

aeajr -

I'm not opposed to foam - I just thought I might "step up a notch" for my second sailplane. If cost considerations will keep me in EPO, then so be it.
I want to spend in the $200-250 range.

It doesn't need to be glass - I'm just not familiar with what is out there. I just thought glass was the next progression up from foam.

As far as converting to electric - I'm open to that, if it's been done sucessfully before.

I don't want a kit - too much building & not enough flying!

Thanks for your reply!

Does the Electro Junior S have flaps? I can't tell from the picture and the graupner website doesn't say, at least I can find any mention of it.

If it doesn't, then the Radian Pro might be a nice small step up, same wingspan + flaps or the Multiplex Cularis, bigger wingspan + flaps and you can build it either powered or non powered. The Cularis has a little building involved but its just gluing stuff together, not so much building as assembly.

Give me some feedback on the planes at the links I gave you and we can move on from there.

I like the Radian Pro.

I am not as fond of the Cularis.

This might fit the bill. It's only 1.9 meters but overall weight and wing loading look good and the price is within your range.

http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...D&ProdID=13899

Wayne

vhuang - The EJS does not have flaps.

I do like the looks of the Radian Pro. It wasn't out last year when I bought my EJS (I wanted to get an aileron ship). As much as I like the EJS, I will get the Radian Pro if I stay with foam.

aeajr - Thanks for the links (now I have drool all over my monitor ....) Out of them, I like the ICARE Magellan & the SoaringUSA Fly Q. They seem very similar to each other, with the Magellan perhaps better suited to my needs

Wayne - thanks for the ESPIRIT Siesta 1.9E link. Looks comprable to the other 2.

Does anyone have any experience or further input with any of these 3 models?

Also - can I safely assume lighter wing loading traslates into better thermal performance?

Thanks a bunch!

There are other factors besides the wing loading. After all, a Stemme S-10 has a min. sink which must be comparable to many models with 1/12 or 1/15th the wing loading. I realize that's an extreme case. However, all else being equal, the lighter model will probably thermal better, at least on calm days.

I take it Art Hobby stuff is too much work?

Lincoln -

what sort of wing loading would be good for me for thermalling down here in South Florida? We get a fairly constant breeze in the teens, either inland or sea (hence the boomers when they meet each other ...) - and, of course, plenty of partly cloudy, sunny days.

I'm not at all aware of Art Hobby stuff - so I have no idea if it's too much work. I can put together ARFs, both balsa & foam, and have done a few scratch builts (foam & coroplast). I just don't want to get into a long, time intensive build (bunch 'o balsa, t-pins, covering, etc.).

Thanks for your input, Tim

+1 art hobby

Tim,
Although I haven't made one myself, I know a couple of people who have the Art Hobby JK Thermik and like it. I bet they have an electric equivalent.

With today's electric gear, you could probably set up to be light and then use ballast or a heavier battery on windy days. Winds in the teens are pretty heavy. A desirable wing loading depends on more than how windy it is. If the you don't have the ability to reflex the airfoil, the airfoil is an older one, or the glider is larger, or the rest of the glider isn't quite as aerodynamically "clean", you'll want more ballast. If it's smaller or it's "cleaner" and has a thin airfoil, say one of the Drela sections, you won't need or want as much ballast. Because larger gliders can handle more ballast without having a nasty sink rate, they may be a bit easier in the wind.

I'd say a desirable range might be 6 to 10 oz. per square foot, but even heavier might be good on a really windy day with a large glider. 10 oz. I had that loading on my old Sagitta 600 (2 meter span), and it was ok even on days when the lift was weak, but if I bobbled it I lost a lot more altitude than a lighter glider might have.

You might figure out the loading of your existing glider, consider it as having an "older" airfoil, and use that as a bit of a guide.

LIncoln - Thanks for your advise - so much to learn!

I did check out the Arthobby site - they have a nice 2M electric.

http://www.arthobby.com/index.php?pa...ry=39&item=289

If it was me, I'd be thinking about just a little more span. But that of course depends on the budget. It would cost $60 more.

Originally Posted by gatorlynch

vhuang - The EJS does not have flaps.

I do like the looks of the Radian Pro. It wasn't out last year when I bought my EJS (I wanted to get an aileron ship). As much as I like the EJS, I will get the Radian Pro if I stay with foam.

aeajr - Thanks for the links (now I have drool all over my monitor ....) Out of them, I like the ICARE Magellan & the SoaringUSA Fly Q. They seem very similar to each other, with the Magellan perhaps better suited to my needs

Wayne - thanks for the ESPIRIT Siesta 1.9E link. Looks comprable to the other 2.

Does anyone have any experience or further input with any of these 3 models?

Also - can I safely assume lighter wing loading traslates into better thermal performance?

Thanks a bunch!

Wing loading is one factor
Airfoil is another
Controls is another

Lighter wing loading translates well when there is not a lot of wind. The AVA would be a good example. 127" wing span and wing loading of around 5.5 oz/sq ft. The plane floats on a wish and is really great for working light light lift near the field. RES gliders are often the kinds of light wing loading float.

All things being equal, higher wing loading yields a faster glide which will typically be better for higher wind speeds or for ranging out away from the field to look for lift. The supra has a 134" wing span and about an 8.5 oz/sq ft wing loading. Better for ranging out from the field and better in wind. But typically it needs stronger lift to rise.

In either case, being able to add ballast to rise the wing loading can expand the flying conditions under which your glider will be manageable. add 25% ballast to the Ava and it will handle better in higher winds and it will run farther and faster than unballasted, but it will sink faster too.

Same with the Supra. Add ballast and increase the stability, the flying speed, the penetration but you sink faster.

I like to be able to add ballast to my gliders. You can make a light glider heavier but you can't make a heavy glider light. So I prefer them light with the ability to add ballast.


Now add wing controls.

The Supra can change the shape of its wing, the AVA can't. So the Supra can shift from a high camber profile that has more float to a low camber wing profile that has more penetration and can range out faster to reach that distant lift. But this flexibility comes with a wing loading penalty.

Then there is airfoil. Some work better at higher wing loading and some lower. Some respond well to camber and reflex and some not as well. Typically this is too technical a topic for me.

Finally there is span.

I like gliders of all spans. However, in general wider wings fly better, just as bigger boats sail better under most conditions. And that larger span and cord allow you to fly higher and farther so you can work that lift longer. 2M needs to be closer to the field. 3M can range out more or work higher.

I have an Omega 2.5 meter, which was sold in the USA but now only available as the Magellan (same glider) from ICare. It is one of my favorites. I never have a problem thermalling this glider. The carbon kevlar fuselage is quite light, very strong and plenty roomy for gear. This fuselage is far superior to a glass fuselage in my opinion.

I have not flown the 2 meter version. When I first looked at it I thought from the picture it did not have flaps like mine but I believe it actually does. Truthfully, you would be happier moving to a 2.5 meter or larger. Most importantly, they are easier to see.

If you take the time to set up the throws and balance according to the instructions it (at least my 2.5) it is very well manored. One wouldn't think so with the almost straight wing but mine is. It flies faster than a rudder elevator only glider, with very small sink. There are in fact two of us in our club with Omegas and both of them climb out on the smallest lift...almost ridiculously easy.

They have a 1.8 or 1.5 meter without flap that is okay but not much for floating in lift. By the way these are really good guys at ICARE and if you ask them for recommendations and tell them where you are with experience I expect they will be able to guide you. In fact most of these dealers are pretty helpful. They want you back. Don't be shy about asking them for recomendations

Regards,

Larry