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Old Apr 13, 2015, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas650r View Post
is there any general info printed on age deterioration ? always wondered about that. and sure every run is different but generally?

chuck
Hi Chuck,
I remember reading about this on Battery University a while back. Went and found the page again (here's the link: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries). No real surprises... They write that battery life deteriorates pretty slowly (2% capacity/year) when kept at storage charge and at loooooow temps (0*C/32*F).
Hope that helps ,
Josh
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Old Apr 13, 2015, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgalexander View Post
Hi Chuck,
I remember reading about this on Battery University a while back. Went and found the page again (here's the link: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries). No real surprises... They write that battery life deteriorates pretty slowly (2% capacity/year) when kept at storage charge and at loooooow temps (0*C/32*F).
Hope that helps ,
Josh

Hey there Josh, noticed that chart is for Li-ion packs. Do you know if the same parameters apply to Li-po?

To add fuel to the TP fire, my one and only experience with TP packs was with a 4s 3300 30C stick flown in my E-Flite Beaver. I managed about 20 cycles on the pack before it puffed. However to be fair I had allowed the battery to discharge to min voltage levels on about the 10th cycle (noob inexperience there) and it wasn't long after that the pack began to puff. I continued to fly it along with some other generic packs for another 2 seasons with the generics receiving the bulk of use. There was perhaps a total of 50? cycles on the pack when it finally gave up the ghost and would not except a charge. That was 2 seasons ago. After discovering this thread and getting to understand Li-po's better it all began to make sense what and why that had happened. Keep up the good work Joe, I really appreciate your hard work and effort put into this thread.
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Old Apr 14, 2015, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jfetter View Post
If I may ask, how old are they, when did you purchase them? LiPo's have a shelf life, regardless of light usage, heavy usage or sitting in a box...

Jack
The TP lipos I am retiring are three years old. They have had relatively constant use during that time, they were never left fully charged, never discharged more than 80%, etc. Basically, the lipos were babied, and the maximum draw the 45C lipos experienced was 25c, and only for a few seconds at a time. I get at least seven minute flight times with all my planes which should tell you I am very easy on my lipos.

My TP G8 lipos are about one year old. They aren't worn out, but they are exhibiting the same issues as the G6 did at a similar age and cycle count.

I will say that I am a TP hater. Like Joe, I've spent thousands on TP products and not one lipo, charger or power supply has been worth the money. At best, TP products perform "okay", but there are always products offering much better value.

There use to be a few TP purchasers at my flying field, now there are none. If someone is flying a TP lipo it is an old one, and no one has anything good to say about them.
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Old Apr 14, 2015, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by malcolmm View Post
The TP lipos I am retiring are three years old. They have had relatively constant use during that time, they were never left fully charged, never discharged more than 80%, etc. Basically, the lipos were babied, and the maximum draw the 45C lipos experienced was 25c, and only for a few seconds at a time. I get at least seven minute flight times with all my planes which should tell you I am very easy on my lipos.

My TP G8 lipos are about one year old. They aren't worn out, but they are exhibiting the same issues as the G6 did at a similar age and cycle count.

I will say that I am a TP hater. Like Joe, I've spent thousands on TP products and not one lipo, charger or power supply has been worth the money. At best, TP products perform "okay", but there are always products offering much better value.

There use to be a few TP purchasers at my flying field, now there are none. If someone is flying a TP lipo it is an old one, and no one has anything good to say about them.
The most surprising issue with the G6's was the 4mm split pack connector TP used which over heated and melted the solder at ~33C. This happened with all 5 of the five 6S/5000 "65C" packs I tried running over 30C. Shortly after this became known TP released the G8's which utilized a 6mm split pack connector which enabled them to survive a sustained 30C cycle

Joe
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Old Apr 15, 2015, 01:59 PM
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Thanks Wilber and Orville !.
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I dropped a grand on four Gen 8 packs two years ago. One pack had a leak just siting on the hobby shop shelf. The hobby dealer replaced it right away. Since then, all four had developed
leaks. I sent two back and they were replaced, then another and finally almost lost my falcon when a cell dropped and triggered my LVC thankfully it rearmed and I was able to land safely.

TP was very good about replacing them under warrenty, but I had to pay around $ 60.00
in total return shipping to Las vegas. Resoldering the bullets and paying for them was a PITA also. I also noticed that in as much time, TP renamed their packs twice, with the newest one being " Magna series " . So far they are working wellwith the Falcon pushing 130 MPH so I have faith, I mean I really cant turn back now.....LOL !
My glaciers of the same form factor ( 6s 5200 ) perform as well though.........so I get it about the two to one buying ratio.

My packs are stored in their own fridge and are balanced charged each and every time.
Also stored at 3.85 per cell in ziplock bags.

Pete
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Old Apr 15, 2015, 02:08 PM
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Thanks Wilber and Orville !.
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Just wanted to note that TP says the original date of purchase applies to the replacement packs........pure nonsense .

I know.......disarm the LVC Pete says Joe !
Velox.........may you RIP !

Plane
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Old Apr 15, 2015, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic liner View Post

My glaciers of the same form factor ( 6s 5200 ) perform as well though.........so I get it about the two to one buying ratio.


Pete
Two to one buying ratio, lol. Isn't that the truth?

I'm still rocking my Glaciers as well, they're my go to for edf's.
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Old Apr 15, 2015, 07:24 PM
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Me too, as I have been impressed with the Glaciers price and performance so far.
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Old Apr 21, 2015, 09:20 PM
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I'm new to lipos and am slowly getting through this tread learning and googling all this info. It seems that most of this date focuses on higher mah batteries in the 5000 - 6000mah ranges. Does this data hold true for lower capacity battries 1500 - 2000mah?

What lipo would you recommend specifically for a 250mm fpv quad, 650grams, 2204 2300kv motors, 20a esc.

Currently have two 1300mah turnigy "45-90"C ;-) I'm thinking going with 1800mah size but not sure on what brand?

Thanks for all the info and work in getting all of this data out.
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Old Apr 21, 2015, 10:10 PM
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I find more forgiveness in the smaller packs probably because I don't make as high of demands on them. The testing on the larger versions serves as a safe "go by" but that's just my opinion.

Joe
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Old Apr 22, 2015, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lpabmendez View Post
I'm new to lipos and am slowly getting through this tread learning and googling all this info. It seems that most of this date focuses on higher mah batteries in the 5000 - 6000mah ranges. Does this data hold true for lower capacity battries 1500 - 2000mah?

What lipo would you recommend specifically for a 250mm fpv quad, 650grams, 2204 2300kv motors, 20a esc.

Currently have two 1300mah turnigy "45-90"C ;-) I'm thinking going with 1800mah size but not sure on what brand?

Thanks for all the info and work in getting all of this data out.
I recommend you figure out your amp draw for your quad. And go from there.

The lesson I take away from what MSGUY has done is that for those of us with low demands on LiPo's, there are a whole lot of economical choices.

For example, my Apprentice S beginner airplane draws an average of 100 mah per minute flown easy doing touch and goes or an average of 200 mah per minute doing full power climbs with spins down and full power climbs again. With a 3200 mah battery, this is an average demand of 2-4C on the battery.

My 450 size CP helicopter averages 18 amps doing circuits, flips, loops, and inverted hovering, or about 8-9C on a 2200 mah battery.

So, if your demands are like mine and your 25-50 C nano tech is really only a 10C battery it does not make much difference. The over rated battery meets your requirements.

On the other hand, if you need 30C continuous and your 45-90C rated battery is only good for 20C, big problem.

So, start with determining your amp draw requirements. From this you can determine the "C" that is drawn from a particular size battery. With this information, people can give you recommendations on what to buy.

I determine my average amp or mah draw by timing my flights and keeping track of the amount of charge needed to recharge the battery. There are more sophisticated ways, but mine works for me.

I think as important as MSGUYS' work is for the EDF guys, it is equally important for the other end of the spectrum in telling us what we do not need to buy.
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Old Apr 22, 2015, 07:30 AM
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Interesting to see and waiting for any other example....
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Old Apr 22, 2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DamonH View Post
Joe isn't the only one in the forums that has a "hard-on" against TP packs. There are plenty of reports of TP not meeting expectations. It's almost like reading about Nano-Techs with the difference being the Nano's are 1/3 the price so you aren't out as much.
... but...

If you get the 25c 8000 you're ahead of the game, they come from a different cell maker.

I've beat on some used 8ah 25c nanos and there's NO WAY I think TP could hold a candle to them... I have TP packs... the TPs have puffed with the abuse I gave those 25c 8ah nanos.

HK claims they have Lithium Cobalt Oxide in them that is similar to some of the better chemistry on the market

They are also VERY VERY similar to Ready Made RCs 8000mah pack in size, cell tab size and weight per cell..
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Old Apr 22, 2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MCSGUY View Post
... and got close to 200 cycles before he dumbed thumbed his rig to a total lose. ...
That's more than a years worth of flying on a set of packs... depending on lifestyle

That's nice...

Revos prices's are pretty decent too...
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Old Apr 22, 2015, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tdford View Post
Don't think him or anyone else said every pack is junk.....
but the thing is, to pay the prices for TP why should there be ANY problems? Shouldn't have to roll the dice when paying those prices.
Being on the selling side of the hobby for a second people would be gobsmacked at the amount of white boxing ...

People, it's best to look at components and specs...

the other stuff is matter of degree of build from China
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