SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 14, 2011, 02:46 PM
Registered User
South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Dec 2009
1,403 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pach View Post
Development on FASST is going to cease to exist. Its going to be either FASSTEST or S-FHSS.

Also that receiver pictured is a High Voltage, Dual diversity, 8 channel Sbus S-FHSS receiver, none of that screams "parkflyer foamie" or entry level.

Explain to me why FASST is better than S-FHSS ? S-FHSS is just as fast or faster than FASST, with spread spectrum and frequency hopping on dual diversity anteannas, I doubt it will get any more lockouts than FASST.

Futaba is shifting itself in two different directions FASSTEST (being the high end setup with 16+2 channels and telemetry) and S-FHSS (being good enough for even large helis if needed), and will make its high end radios compatible with S-FHSS.

Also:



Apparently people with 10+ year old Futaba radios will get S-FHSS compatibility before 8FG folks.

The module is because Futaba will no longer manufacture FASST modules, only FASST/FASSTest Tx and FHSS/S-FHSS Tx.
Hobbico already stated on another forum that FHSS/S-FHSS is introduced to allow for a lower price point. You right though in that the Rx is a S-bus and dual diversity so its not entry level, just more cost effective.

FHSS -> S-FHSS -> FASST -> FASSTest

if they drop FASST and replace it with S-FHSS they will make a lot of their current receivers obsolete after only 1 yr on the market. Does not make sense.

it makes more sense that the FHSS line is a lower price point Rx for people not wanting to spend money on R6203SB, or R6208SB or R7008SB two way Rx.
Specs are not released for the S-FHSS 8ch R but it would be strange to offer full S-Bus functionality at the S-FHSS level. it is likely It will only support 8 S-bus channel or 8 analogue channel where as the FASST range offers 8analogue + 16S-bus servos if the transmitter can accomodate the addressing.

There is still a lot of information outstanding to be making sky falling on Futaba's head predictions.
TimBle is offline Find More Posts by TimBle
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 14, 2011, 05:59 PM
ltc
AMA 97737
ltc's Avatar
United States, MA, Mendon
Joined Mar 2010
2,741 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptgarcia View Post
I'm a modeler and Futaba user returning to the hobby after nearly a 6 yr hiatus and these guys have me so confused its not funny. I fly everything from small balsa electrics to giant scale gassers and would like to try a 2.4GHz module in my radio but there is so much instability in that technology I don't think I will. Or if I do its going to be a cheap Chinese system (FrSky, for instance) instead of what I'd really like, a Futaba setup. The Futaba components are just too damn expensive to have them become obsolete every couple years.
I just returned after a 30+ year absence from the sport.
Suffice it to say, things were simpler back in the mid 70's.

For now, I am going to stay "old school" and use my Futaba 53MHz radios from back in the day.

Eventually I will buy a new radio ... Although I have no idea (I like the Multiplex Royal Evo and the Futaba 14/18 units) since no one seems to like anyone else's radio. My wife joked thar I should just build my own so I would no one to blame...
ltc is offline Find More Posts by ltc
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 15, 2011, 06:19 AM
Registered User
Sverige, Värmlands Län, Filipstad
Joined Jan 2009
1,218 Posts
ltc,
Welcome back to the hobby - it has happened alot in the 30 years You have been out of this sport. When You left the sport FM radios had entered the market to replace AM as main system and then came FM with PCM and now we have 2.4 GHz radios since about 2006 when they started to come on the hobby market. New radios are almost all on 2.4 GHz now (except mostly toy radios that may be on AM or FM).
I'm sure Your old Futaba on 53 MHz could be in service again. What model is it?
It is also possible to install a 2.4 GHz transmitter module in it so You can benefit of that type of system if you want. Just google some and You will get more info. I have myself an old 1975 Pro Line Competition Series 6 ch AM converted to 2.4 GHz with a Futaba TM-7 2.4 Ghz transmitter module - it is done by Radio South (Tony Stillman) now. That way this old radio can be back in light flying service again (i do not dare to fly it on AM today). The radio is also serviced and new transmitter+receiver battery packs are installed. I will use a Futaba 2.4 Ghz S.Bus reciever and some Futaba servos with it that I already have for another modern 2.4 GHz radio I have (a 14MZ). It will cost some of course to get this old Pro Line in flying condition again but since my Pro Line is still in mint condition I wanted it in service again for light occasional flying.
A new entry-mid level radio today do not cost you a month of wages as in the old days. It is so many brands and models to choose among it is not easy to pick one and many cheap Chinese radios is also there but they still need to be FCC approved to be used in Your country of course (here in Europe where I live they must have the CE sticker on them).

/Bo
bossee is online now Find More Posts by bossee
Last edited by bossee; Oct 15, 2011 at 02:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 15, 2011, 10:33 AM
Registered User
Kambalunga's Avatar
Deutschland, Hessen, LA
Joined Jan 2009
1,212 Posts
The big question what happen with FASST when EN300328 V1.8.1 is in force.
The MU factor is then to high!
Is FASSTEST adaptiv or has a lower MU-factor as 10%?
Kambalunga is online now Find More Posts by Kambalunga
Last edited by Kambalunga; Aug 21, 2012 at 05:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 15, 2011, 12:31 PM
Registered User
Romania, Dolj, Craiova
Joined Sep 2007
15,410 Posts
Same for DSM2 sorry for off-topic, but couldn't resist
renatoa is online now Find More Posts by renatoa
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 15, 2011, 04:21 PM
Registered User
Kambalunga's Avatar
Deutschland, Hessen, LA
Joined Jan 2009
1,212 Posts
DSM2 and DSMX MU factor 7% so what.
VS 25% and more for FASST.
Kambalunga is online now Find More Posts by Kambalunga
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 15, 2011, 04:28 PM
Oxford Panic
AndyOne's Avatar
United Kingdom, Oxford
Joined Feb 2003
3,661 Posts
Kambalunga,

There's just too much of the stuff out there now so even if some highly technical legislation is enacted it just couldn't be enforced.

I just skimmed the EN section on MU factor but it seems to refer to medical equipment can it apply to R/C gear.

A.
AndyOne is offline Find More Posts by AndyOne
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 16, 2011, 06:14 AM
Registered User
South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Dec 2009
1,403 Posts
Another of Chumbalunga's Futaba thread hijacks.
TimBle is offline Find More Posts by TimBle
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 16, 2011, 09:18 AM
Fast and low...
aa78's Avatar
Joined Apr 2009
837 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambalunga View Post
The big question what happen with FASST when EN300328 V1.8.1 is in force.
The MU factor is then to high!
Is FASSTEST adaptiv or has a lower MU-factor as 10%?
Please explain in more... legible terms.
aa78 is offline Find More Posts by aa78
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 16, 2011, 10:49 AM
Registered User
richard hanson's Avatar
United States, UT, Salt Lake City
Joined Oct 2007
7,350 Posts
I don't know where you guys all fly your models
Having been to a few fields and tallied up what the POPULAR type model was at all of them - I see no reversal of the trend to smaller - ready to fly - (many in molded EPP) .
The really high end models (been there ) are in really low count
I include 60% aerobatic gas , electric pattern and scale jets.
Based on what I see - the market for more high end radios is very small.
The actual rf link on even the least expensive stuf works -so features for involved models -looks like the only valid reason for charging over a grand ($$).
Maybe in the rest of the world the hobby is shifting to the more expensive stuff - I don't see that here .

Futaba has a marketing plan- Obviously- but having a lot of incompatible systems sure seems odd to me -
Does someone really know is one rf setup is truly superior? If so in what respect?
richard hanson is offline Find More Posts by richard hanson
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 16, 2011, 03:01 PM
Suspended Account
M$ Security
Joined Jun 2010
728 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pach View Post
Explain to me why FASST is better than S-FHSS ?
S-FHSS is just as fast or faster than FASST, with spread spectrum and frequency hopping on dual diversity anteannas, I doubt it will get any more lockouts than FASST.
I'm still waiting someone answer your question ?
Futaba makes a lot of money with FASSCAM receivers, they dont work better than a FrSky Rx, I know what I'm talking about...

FASST= IC made for Futaba ?
S-FHSS = IC generic
FrSky = IC generic

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimBle View Post
Hobbico already stated on another forum that FHSS/S-FHSS is introduced to allow for a lower price point. You right though in that the Rx is a S-bus and dual diversity so its not entry level, just more cost effective.
Do you really trust Hobbico aka Tower Monopolies ?
8FG + R6208SB = 37800 JPY = 489 USD
T8J + R2008SB = 36750 JPY = 476 USD
Mikarro is offline Find More Posts by Mikarro
Last edited by Mikarro; Oct 16, 2011 at 11:02 PM.
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Oct 16, 2011, 04:00 PM
Registered User
Romania, Dolj, Craiova
Joined Sep 2007
15,410 Posts
Any current 2.4GHz RC system contains two parts:
- a RF stage, which actually is a radio modem, at both ends it behaves as a serial line, nothing else.
- a microprocessor which, at Tx side transform the PPM pulses into numbers and send them over the aerial serial line to the receiver, and at receiver side gets the numbers and synthesize the servo control pulses accordingly.

Everything that is related to range, link quality, diversity is controlled by first chip. In both FASST and Frsky it is the same ML2724DH, in S-FHSS I don't know. This chip is a general usage transceiver, from 2003, go figure how much innovation brings the big brands... Also, for those not familiar with RF glossary, transceiver comes from transmitter-receiver, a combo device, so, at least in theory Futaba should be able to turn its system into a bidirectional one, only by a firmware update, as Frsky does.

The microcontroller contains the FH and binding logic, so if a Frsky receiver is now able to bind to a Futaba Tx, we must suppose that the Futaba labeled IC is also a similar MCU as Frsky, or at least run a program with an identical behavior. I wouldn't advance the cloning hypothesis, I know that was rather a reverse engineering. Anyway, the program ran by this processor does not influence the link robustness, Futaba has no merit here. What they own as IP in all this stuff is the FH algorithm, but seems it is not something magic, all FH systems today seems to prove at least same robustness as Futaba.

If someone can open a S-FHSS receiver and make photos of its chips, maybe we can elaborate more about what could be so special in S-FHSS.
My guess is: nothing ! Why I say this... the time required to send 16 channels data with current technology is about 3-4ms. So, the 20 and more ms latencies of FASST and other PPM systems are only imposed by the backward compatibility with PPM and FM transmitters. When you start building systems that has no heritage to preserve, and remove this old framing, 7-8ms response times of S-FHSS should be the norm for any mfr, and nothing special. And this is the only argument from S-FHSS ads.
renatoa is online now Find More Posts by renatoa
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 17, 2011, 07:20 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2011
23 Posts
FrSky V8 and D series (Futaba incompatible) Use TexasInstruments´ CC2500 RF transceiver (The same transceiver of Hitec AFHSS)

Futaba Fasst and FrSky futaba compatrible use Microlinear´s ML2724 RF transceiver
donato.jun is offline Find More Posts by donato.jun
Last edited by donato.jun; Oct 17, 2011 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Added Hitec note
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 17, 2011, 07:50 AM
Registered User
Romania, Dolj, Craiova
Joined Sep 2007
15,410 Posts
As Hitec, Graupner HoTT, Flydream, and some other chinese companies.
It's an excellent low cost solution, results speaks for it.
But this hardware alignment raise other question: why the big brands are not able to reply so fast to customers requests as Frsky, having same hardware platform ?
Not able or not interested ? To save for future versions sold with big bucks to their loyal and blind customers ? Isn't disgusting this marketing thing ?
renatoa is online now Find More Posts by renatoa
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 17, 2011, 11:49 AM
Registered User
South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Dec 2009
1,403 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikarro View Post


Do you really trust Hobbico aka Tower Monopolies ?
8FG + R6208SB = 37800 JPY = 489 USD
T8J + R2008SB = 36750 JPY = 476 USD

Dude don't post information you sucked from thin air.
The 8J is not anywhere near sale so the pricing is not even known yet.

Renatoa,

even if the chipset is used across brands the formware on it is still proprietry and each company will do its own development and testing before releasing it in a sale item.
Larer companies tend to make decisions via committee whereas FrSKY being a smaller company they can make decision faster and respond faster. That is the advantage of being small; speed and agility.
kind of ironic that Futaba is known as the agile frequency hopper but the company is quite slow to respond to market needs. Much more conservative and considered in its approach to its products
TimBle is offline Find More Posts by TimBle
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question Airtronics FHSS-1 FHSS-2 FHSS-3 aeajr Radios 3 Mar 02, 2012 05:21 PM
Discussion Why are there no FHSS or Spektrum style vtx's? randall1959 FPV Talk 14 Sep 04, 2011 05:34 PM
For Sale Like new Futaba 6J 6-Channel 2.4GHz S-FHSS Tx/Rx(SOLD) thundercl58 Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 1 May 21, 2011 06:04 PM
Discussion 2.4GHz FHSS Futaba 4YF JJ OROÑO Radios 7 Jan 28, 2010 05:08 PM
Discussion Futaba SS, is it FHSS or DSSS d_wheel Radios 36 Jan 12, 2008 10:11 AM