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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:05 AM
Frank
Germany, BW, Heubach
Joined Dec 2012
928 Posts
Man I know how ya feel, I smashed my 450 from HELLi in the dirt 2 days ago,
Flipped it around, and back and the batt conn. popped out
And inverted flight straight on the head. Wow, chickens do live after ya chop off there heads.
Thank Heli god I had a new alu head, but no tail rotors

Will do a crash vid on the next flight, lol. hope I wont have too.

My kids wont get near me when I fly, no camera man, lol

And I dont wanna stand in a field with a bike helmet with a cam on top either.
Will get funny looks and they would say, look at the opa, goes walkin with a helmet on in an open field,

Frank
Good luck with your FP 450 fbl project man
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 01:37 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Had a good one today with the other conversion. In an effort to get the throttle to start before 20% I inadvertantly reversed the throttle on the Tx. I went out, pushed the throttle stick and nothing was happening, pushed some more then the thing shot straight up. I had zero throttle control and it was climbing. I shut off the Tx and it kept going so I was when it started slowing down and then it dropped from I guess about 60 feet, nose first in the street. What a mess, and it squished a brand new 3s pack. I laugh now cuz it was a rookie mistake. LOL
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 09:06 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
338 Posts
Could you have also built this using a HK-250 frame and would the rotor head have work better? Also I've been trying to mate my F45 to work with my DX6i TX as of now I still have not gotten things work work correctly. My problem is with the second esc. Let me explain. I've still playing with the brush motor system. I have two brush esc for the main motor and tail motor. The main motor is working fine. Also have a separate gyro for the tail motor what I've found out is that the esc wants to see a throttle signal before it will activate this is my main problem here. But I see where so have main motors and tail motors that are brushless and running them with two esc. I tried emailing them and no luck so don't know how there doing it. I'd like to tried your setup once I can get pass my project here. I may have to go back to the stock receiver if I cannot get this to work.

Would like to try something like a HK-250 class frame with the variable pitch tail rotor but as a FP heli

Like to see your finish product and flight review when finish.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 02:09 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,767 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeNGun View Post
Could you have also built this using a HK-250 frame and would the rotor head have work better? Also I've been trying to mate my F45 to work with my DX6i TX as of now I still have not gotten things work work correctly. My problem is with the second esc. Let me explain. I've still playing with the brush motor system. I have two brush esc for the main motor and tail motor. The main motor is working fine. Also have a separate gyro for the tail motor what I've found out is that the esc wants to see a throttle signal before it will activate this is my main problem here. But I see where so have main motors and tail motors that are brushless and running them with two esc. I tried emailing them and no luck so don't know how there doing it. I'd like to tried your setup once I can get pass my project here. I may have to go back to the stock receiver if I cannot get this to work.

Would like to try something like a HK-250 class frame with the variable pitch tail rotor but as a FP heli

Like to see your finish product and flight review when finish.
What you need to do is bind the heli using the main motor ESC. On the tail ESC, remove the power lead from the servo plug to the RX. Power up the Tail ESC after binding is complete. A small micro switch will do nicely for that. I have separate batteries for mine as I use 3s for the main and the RX power, and use a small 2s to power the tail motor.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:35 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
338 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
What you need to do is bind the heli using the main motor ESC. On the tail ESC, remove the power lead from the servo plug to the RX. Power up the Tail ESC after binding is complete. A small micro switch will do nicely for that. I have separate batteries for mine as I use 3s for the main and the RX power, and use a small 2s to power the tail motor.
Okay I think I follow what your saying, I have remove the power lead from the esc servo lead then that gets plug into the gyro. The orange signal wire of the gyro plug into the clear channel on the orangerx RX and the other plug with three wires going into the rudder channel with the power lead being disconnected. What happen is that the tail esc all it does is beep. Seem that it not getting a signal to the signal wire. If I plug the tail into the rudder channel it works but that not what I'm trying to do here. Do I need to unbind the tail esc if that can be done and start over ? Or are you saying I need to power up the tail esc after the main esc and rx tx are bond ? But there again where is the tail esc getting its signal from to activate.
This a hole project has been driving me up the wall.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 10:25 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,767 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeNGun View Post
Okay I think I follow what your saying, I have remove the power lead from the esc servo lead then that gets plug into the gyro. The orange signal wire of the gyro plug into the clear channel on the orangerx RX and the other plug with three wires going into the rudder channel with the power lead being disconnected. What happen is that the tail esc all it does is beep. Seem that it not getting a signal to the signal wire. If I plug the tail into the rudder channel it works but that not what I'm trying to do here. Do I need to unbind the tail esc if that can be done and start over ? Or are you saying I need to power up the tail esc after the main esc and rx tx are bond ? But there again where is the tail esc getting its signal from to activate.
This a hole project has been driving me up the wall.
Read this. It is detailed information on what I did.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=12
The issue you are having is the Tail Esc cannot be powered up the same time as the main ESC which power the RX. You power up the RX/Main ESC first and then when you are powering up the Tail ESC, the Rudder port has signal and the Gyro is inititialized.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 04:16 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
She Flys!!

I could hover for a bit, but I think the training gear was messing with the gyro a bit. Other wise it is very sensitive to stick input, as once I lost the hover it would start doing slow back and forth circles as I tried to adjust. I still need to learn what happens when you start turning the dials on the receiver to slow things down a bit. Flipping the dual rate switch on the Tx cuts the cyclics by 50% which was too much for the close quarters in my backyard. I have the blades set at 7 degrees which was a whole lot better than the 9 degrees. As soon as I get the hover down I will take it out to the field and let'er eat.

This is what I got in it so far:

Trex 450 clone
Hobbymate 450 DFC Flybarless head (clone).
Align 90 degree swashplate
Tower pro servos for cyclic
Hobby King digital tail servo
Walkera 2437V receiver w/3 axis gyro
Walkera 2403 transmitter
Hobbymate 3800kv motor w/13t pinion
Hobbywing Pentium 40A speed control
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:29 PM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
500 Posts
This is a great thread. I too hope to do a larger heli FP conversion sometime in the future. Heck, I'm already buying parts for it here and there LOL.

I finally flew my F45 today for the first time without fighting the wind, and it was fantastic! I only crashed twice- Once while clipping a small limb I didn't see, and the other practicing FFF to zero stop at less than about 5 feet up... Found out you REALLY gotta add power to get a semi-proper response!

Truthfully, a FBL FP heli set up like this will handle much more like the real thing- at least any time you have significant speed. Collective pitch inputs are minimal unless hovering. Rolls, loops, and RTTs can all be done without big collective changes. This should be a GREAT heli once you get all the little things worked out!
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 03:52 AM
Micro Heli mods
Tumppi T's Avatar
Finland, Tuusula
Joined Mar 2012
181 Posts
You guys are making me crazy.....I'm have to buy one of these 450 clones as well and modify it to FP version (using F45 parts of course)
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Latest blog entry: VCTRC 450 Pro V2 (T-Rex clone)
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 06:18 AM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
338 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
Read this. It is detailed information on what I did.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=12
The issue you are having is the Tail Esc cannot be powered up the same time as the main ESC which power the RX. You power up the RX/Main ESC first and then when you are powering up the Tail ESC, the Rudder port has signal and the Gyro is inititialized.
Okay thanks for the input and the link. I took everything a part the other day and put in the Honey Bee FP 4in1 finally got it to work. Would like to run my first setup, I'm put all the electronic on the bench a do a test that way before putting anything back into the MJX F45. Also have a Honey Bee FP that's not working maybe I'll put that setup in it. Think I need lighter esc the brush one I had in the F45 add a lot of weight I've seen some micro esc that may work better there smaller and lighter and come in brush or brushless.

How did you mount the tail brushless motor to the F45 ? Wonder if you have any picture of it.. Was thinking of using a tail mount that's on a Trexx 250 or like the Honey Bee King 3 and some how fix a brushless motor to it.
Thanks for your help.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 08:46 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeNGun View Post
Okay thanks for the input and the link. I took everything a part the other day and put in the Honey Bee FP 4in1 finally got it to work. Would like to run my first setup, I'm put all the electronic on the bench a do a test that way before putting anything back into the MJX F45. Also have a Honey Bee FP that's not working maybe I'll put that setup in it. Think I need lighter esc the brush one I had in the F45 add a lot of weight I've seen some micro esc that may work better there smaller and lighter and come in brush or brushless.

How did you mount the tail brushless motor to the F45 ? Wonder if you have any picture of it.. Was thinking of using a tail mount that's on a Trexx 250 or like the Honey Bee King 3 and some how fix a brushless motor to it.
Thanks for your help.
BThirsk will comment further but here is his mounting from his blog page:

http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/at...il%20Motor.jpg
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 07:14 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
338 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
BThirsk will comment further but here is his mounting from his blog page:

http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/at...il%20Motor.jpg
Thanks for the picture would like to see what that other side looks like, I can tell me made his own motor mount nice job from what I can see. Also see he has other post will have to read throw them all.

I'm still having trouble trying to get the second esc to work did everything like BThirsk said all I get is beeps from the second esc. I put all electronic on the bench to test. Used two esc two motors two battery. Turn on TX this power up the main motor with esc with its battery, once its arm put power to the second esc with its own batter and the tail esc is connected to the rudder channel all I get is beep is does not arm also the power lead from the tail esc was disconnected because the main motor power the receiver. Still no signal to the tail esc.. Could it be the type of esc I'm using. I'm using the Turnigy 20A BRUSHED ESC from Hobbyking
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:47 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
BL tail mount (the easy way!)

Been lurking only, whole heap of problems with the East coast cyclone over here (as per main F45 thread).
However, picture of my BL tail mount - and the finished product. By an odd coincidence, the Turnigy 1811/2211 mounts line up exactly with the Align 450 horizontal stab mount. So no drama at all.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 03:54 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Hey OldOz. Glad you and yours made it through the worst of it.

Found out that the F45 blades and a full shot of 2200mAh 3s power do not mix. Blades start flapping like a butterfly. The Xtreme blades didn't even make one full circle. Both blew off at the root at about 40 feet. Nice crash though. LOL
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 05:29 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
Hey OldOz. Glad you and yours made it through the worst of it.

Found out that the F45 blades and a full shot of 2200mAh 3s power do not mix. Blades start flapping like a butterfly. The Xtreme blades didn't even make one full circle. Both blew off at the root at about 40 feet. Nice crash though. LOL
Thanks for the good wishes - a real crappy few weeks, but almost back to normal now though.

Your own crash!
Yep, thought there'd have to be a limit to just how much loading we could put on the F45 rotor head/blade combo. Was pretty amazed that it could lift 900g on my own conversion: so never really had to go down the 3s road - other than tests.
Good that at least you've GOT the bits to rebuild: my own first full BL 45/450 flew off into the sunset, never to be recovered it seems now .
But kind of odd that BThirsk (and others) have been running 3s for a while. Think it gets back to blade speed: with a standard 450 motor, and a 10t pinion, seemed to spin up just fine (on 3s) in the workshop. But that motor is 3500kv, and my 'standard' f45/450 HK motor is 5250kv: which might also be pushing the boundaries a bit far at 11.1V. Not too tempted to try now, after your experience!

One odd thing I've noticed.
I've never had to do the 'bind then connect ESCs' with any of my four BL conversions (apart from setting ESC THR range). Even on the fully BL 45/450: just connect the Deans, and both ESCs are good to go - after Tx THR bind sequence, of course.
Maybe it's a feature of the Turnigy plush ESCs?

Cheers
John
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Last edited by OldOz; Feb 06, 2013 at 05:46 PM.
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