HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 17, 2012, 04:22 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,846 Posts
Current kills is correct and comes from the secondary power equation P=I squared x R.
This is derived from P = I x V
So if I keep current constant but increase voltage. It will still burn up the motor as it is the waste heat that does it. Of course cooling helps by dissipating heat.
DavidN is offline Find More Posts by DavidN
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 17, 2012, 05:21 PM
Registered User
arcticflyer's Avatar
Canada, SK, Prince Albert
Joined Jan 2006
1,361 Posts
David - The only reason it is called a glider motor is the smaller 28mm motor mount area in the front allowing it to be mounted in the narrow noses of gliders and hotliners. The motor itself, to my knowledge, is no different than a standard 3025.

Thanks Ron - Am curious, are the RPM's limited by the design of the ESC or the motor itself?
arcticflyer is online now Find More Posts by arcticflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 07:42 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
near Nijmegen, Netherlands
Joined Feb 2001
10,432 Posts
Both mechanically AND computationally limited, the microprocessor in the ESC can only handle/compute a certain number of commutations/switches per second. The higher the number of magnetpoles, the lower ESC max shaft rpm.
See this table
www.bavararia-direct.co.za
-> motorbuilding info
-> ESC max rpm limits

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
diy motor tipsDrive Calculator
diy motor groupCumulus MFC
Ron van Sommeren is offline Find More Posts by Ron van Sommeren
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Jan 17, 2012 at 07:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 07:52 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
near Nijmegen, Netherlands
Joined Feb 2001
10,432 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
Current kills is correct and comes from the secondary power equation P=I x R.
This is derived from P = I x V
So if I keep current constant but increase voltage. It will still burn up the motor as it is the waste heat that does it....
Nope, it won't burn, losses in the copperwire will remain the same, as per the first equation you gave. Just more power to the prop due to higher rpm.

However, hysteris losses in the stator go up linearly with rpm ('=' voltage) and eddy current losses in the stator go up squared with rpm. At high rpm thinner (currently 0,2mm is standard) and better quality steel statorlaminations must be used.


Vriendelijke groeten Ron
Ron van Sommeren is offline Find More Posts by Ron van Sommeren
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Jan 17, 2012 at 08:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 10:00 AM
Registered User
Manila, Philippines and Burlingame, CA
Joined Jul 2007
241 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell View Post
@Gopedasia Yes it will --- for a few seconds until the magic smoke comes out. That is if you get it going without timing start-up problems. It is like putting a 1200cc Mini engine in a 18 wheeler to cart around big loads around the country.

@arcticflyer - Although this motor is not intended for a 5s or 6s battery, you can run it on 6s but will have to use a 6 prop spinning at 32,000 rpm. What is the use of that? A small prop is inefficient and the higher the rpm, the less efficient it become. On the 4s battery it should already spin at around 19,000 rpm with a 8x4 prop. In a EDF it will work OK. What plane are you using it in?
Phew i thought i threw a magnet or something. All i neededvwas to lube the bearings and retighten the motor mount screws. Thanks guys.
Gopedasia is offline Find More Posts by Gopedasia
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31, 2012, 02:54 PM
Registered User
Alpha_Geist's Avatar
United States, CA, Elk Grove
Joined Dec 2011
347 Posts
I've been on the hunt for a faster (and non-backordered) replacement for my Power 10 in my PZ foamies. I've eyed Scorpion SII3014 series as well as their SII3020 series of motors as well. Now I'm looking at Hyperion Zs3014 and Zs3020 as viable replacements.

The props I'm looking to use is pushing me towards Hyperion, especially the Zs3020-8 motor. The scorpion equivalent is pusing about +160 grams. The Zs3020-8 is, from what I can tell, roughly +120 grams. If that's true, then I'm all for Hyperion.

Question(s) though...

The only Hyperion products I own are their LiPos. I've have no experience with their motors and I just recently learned about Scorperions. I'm looking to outfit my PZ P-51D, F4F and possibly P-47 with the Zs3020-8 motors. Is there any advice regarding this specific motor? Especially so considering the planes I want to put it in. I'm just looking for more insight on this particular motor from people who use it, before I click the "Add to Cart" button.
Alpha_Geist is offline Find More Posts by Alpha_Geist
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31, 2012, 03:14 PM
Registered User
Fourdan's Avatar
Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
2,837 Posts
Hi AlphaGeist
Scorpion SII 3020 have 3 Kv (3 windings), weight around 168g
Hyperion ZS3020 have 2 Kv, weight around 162 g
They are cousins, both from Scorpion's factory
Louis
Fourdan is online now Find More Posts by Fourdan
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31, 2012, 03:24 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,846 Posts
Fourdan it took me a second to realize 2 Kv & 3 Kv referred to models available rather than the internal construction of the motor
DavidN is offline Find More Posts by DavidN
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31, 2012, 05:04 PM
Registered User
Alpha_Geist's Avatar
United States, CA, Elk Grove
Joined Dec 2011
347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
Fourdan it took me a second to realize 2 Kv & 3 Kv referred to models available rather than the internal construction of the motor
Aside from the weight of the two 168g and three 162g offerings, any comment on performance of these cousin motors?

Also, on allerc.com, the weight listed for the 3020-8/10 are 126.3g, but Fourdan mentioned they are 162g. I was hoping for the lighter 126.3g weight. Doh!
Alpha_Geist is offline Find More Posts by Alpha_Geist
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31, 2012, 07:27 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,846 Posts
The guts are identical for an identical Kv. Think Chevy & Pontiac. The differences are cosmetic. However they sometimes offer a different Kv option eg Hyperion Zs3025 has a 970Kv I like for a Power 25 replacement.
Scorpions all come with back mount hardware. NOT ALL Hyperions come with backmount hardware. Read the website info carefully. I have had good service from allerc & aircraft world (Japan)


http://www.allerc.com/
http://www.aircraft-world.com/
DavidN is offline Find More Posts by DavidN
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 09, 2012, 05:01 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
84 Posts
Hi I have got a Hyperion zs4035-12 motor using a Hyperion atlas 90 amp opto esc with two 4s turnigy 5800mah lipos connected in series. I am able to work out total efficiency of my system but want to know the efficiency of the esc and motor. Are you able to provide me with some graphs and or charts that can display these parameters. I do understand the complexity involved but some engineering data would be quite useful. I appreciate your help. Thanks,
stealthdragonb is offline Find More Posts by stealthdragonb
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 09, 2012, 10:13 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
near Nijmegen, Netherlands
Joined Feb 2001
10,432 Posts
Sticky in this subforum
e-flight calculators (compilation)

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
Ron van Sommeren is offline Find More Posts by Ron van Sommeren
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2012, 02:37 PM
Registered User
cirrus_uk's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Mar 2012
162 Posts
I'm thinking about getting the HYPERION ZS-3009-20 1100Kv brushless motor for my new Sig 20 EP plane (currently building). This is my first build and first motor so I've some basic questions I'd appreciate some help on.

1) I've no idea how the mounting works, there appears to be a shaft at both ends of the motor. The mounting kit says it comes with a Cross-piece for front or backmount installations, but then also says "In order to "backmount" Zs30 an option set is required" which is confusing.

any pictures showing when you would front vs backmount and what is required to achieve both?

2) haven't decided on the prop yet but hoping to have around 400w of power with this motor and running on a 3s 2200 lipo.

3) is there any advantage to pairing the motor with the recommended Atlas ESC? vs a different make which might be switching instead of linear.

4) Given these motors were first round in 2009, are they still updated? I can get a HobbyKing NTM motor for 1/5th of the price which appear more modern.

5) It sounds like Scorpion now manufacturer these motors, but I can't find an equally spec'd motor from Scorpion. Why do the hyperion's come with only a 12 month warranty and yet the Scorpion's come with 2 years?

thanks
cirrus_uk is offline Find More Posts by cirrus_uk
Last edited by cirrus_uk; Nov 23, 2012 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2012, 04:00 PM
Registered User
scirocco's Avatar
Australia, ACT, Kambah
Joined Feb 2001
2,957 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cirrus_uk View Post
I'm thinking about getting the HYPERION ZS-3009-20 1100Kv brushless motor for my new Sig 20 EP plane (currently building). This is my first build and first motor so I've some basic questions I'd appreciate some help on.

1) I've no idea how the mounting works, there appears to be a shaft at both ends of the motor. The mounting kit says it comes with a Cross-piece for front or backmount installations, but then also says "In order to "backmount" Zs30 an option set is required" which is confusing.

any pictures showing when you would front vs backmount and what is required to achieve both?

2) haven't decided on the prop yet but hoping to have around 400w of power with this motor and running on a 3s 2200 lipo.

3) is there any advantage to pairing the motor with the recommended Atlas ESC? vs a different make which might be switching instead of linear.

4) Given these motors were first round in 2009, are they still updated? I can get a HobbyKing NTM motor for 1/5th of the price which appear more modern.

5) It sounds like Scorpion now manufacturer these motors, but I can't find an equally spec'd motor from Scorpion. Why do the hyperion's come with only a 12 month warranty and yet the Scorpion's come with 2 years?

thanks
I'm guessing it's the Four Star 20 EP?? If so the review I looked at showed the motor backmounted. This is probably the most common sport model (ie not glider) mounting for the motor, where the fixed base of the motor is bolted in front of a firewall or motor box, often using spacers or standoffs to get the prop at the right position. In a front mount, the motor is bolted behind a firewall, the shaft goes through the firewall, and the supplied collet adapter mounts the prop to the shaft. There is a picture of both on this page

The Hyperion backmount kit provides a prop driver that bolts up to the rotating case of the motor, a collar that goes on the motor shaft at the fixed base to stop the bell being pulled off under prop load and various spacers. For a 48" model you're probably going to want the 6mm shaft adapter for the size props you will run.

I use several Hyperion ZS motors and find they run cooler and smoother than Hobby King alternatives. 5 times smoother - of course not, but IMO they are noticeably better motors. For example, nn a 3DHS 46" Vyper, I run a Zs31014-14 with a 13x6.5, for a big increase in performance but the same flight time as when I used a Turnigy 3542, and 2 ot those have developed noticeable radial play in the bearings (ie the shaft can rock side to side).

Re the ESC, I think the Hobby King Plush offer hard to beat value, and run all my Hyperions trouble free. The 40 or 60 have solid switching BECs.
scirocco is online now Find More Posts by scirocco
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2012, 04:48 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,846 Posts
Here is a pic from aircraft world. The "backmount Kit" consists of
a)Prop mount adapter that screws onto the motor bell
b)shaft retainer, similar to those for holding wheels onto axles.
c) wood spacers.

b & c can be obtained or improvised from elsewhere but since you must have (a) BUY IT.
ESC no advantage.
Scorpion comes with all you need. Their 3008 is a little light but 3014 1040 would be great.

HK is OK but variable quality. You may buy several & have some good. The bearings are no way as good. Also Hyperion/Scorpion magnets are much higher temp. So unlikely to demag. Suggest sticking to 80% of advertised watt/amp limit.
If you have a lot of crashes still then buy 5 HK motors & replace as needed. If you only occaisionally have a mishap, move up to a great motor. I have a couple of Hyperion & several Scorpions.
DavidN is offline Find More Posts by DavidN
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale For Sale - New Brushless motors forsale, Hyperion, mega, eflite stealthy Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 8 Dec 31, 2006 08:54 AM
New Hyperion Z30 Series motors from ACW Zimbo Power Systems 104 Aug 21, 2006 01:11 PM
NEW!!! electronicmodel motors and esc !!!! fjhdavid Electric Heli Talk 9 Jan 22, 2002 08:51 AM
New Brushless motors check it out Eco8gator Electric Heli Talk 5 Nov 06, 2001 02:50 AM
Simpro new Brushless motors chrisc Electric Plane Talk 0 Jun 12, 2001 11:36 PM