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Old Feb 12, 2014, 02:10 PM
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BabyBootLegger
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United States, CA, Alameda
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Have you considered using GM Volt batteries?
The 16KWr battery pack can be purchased second-hand from the auto breakers and disassembled and reassembled as a much lighter pack, without the housing and water cooling jackets.
A second-hand battery pack is only $1,000-1,500.00 in America, at the auto breakers or what Americans call the auto recyclers.
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Old Jun 03, 2014, 06:39 PM
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Any progress ?

Hi Guys ,

I'm now the proud owner of an uncovered , never flown Lazair . I've been interested in electrifying this design for a long time . It seems that progress has stalled ..... There has been so much good work done so far and it would be a shame to not continue .

Marc
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Old Jun 03, 2014, 07:48 PM
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Congrats Marc. Too bad your so dang far away. Would be glad to donate time to help build if I could fly it once. Ok maybe twice.

Im really thinking we are on the cusp of some higher tech power cell technology. Im hoping for double the capacity. Not necessarily higher energy density but lighter plate materials and even lower IR meaning even higher charge rates if we can figure out how to supply the chargers.We may have to redesign for larger/reconfigured battery bays if we want more runtime.
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Old Jun 03, 2014, 08:26 PM
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I don't want to have to reinvent the wheel and would love to buy a turnkey power set up . I'm not too concerned about motors and ESC choices . It's safe , efficient batteries and BMS that are more the question . Dale has done some great work so far with that .

Where in California are you ? I plan to fly my RV 4 out that way starting late next week .

Marc
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Old Jun 04, 2014, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 747drvr View Post
I don't want to have to reinvent the wheel and would love to buy a turnkey power set up . I'm not too concerned about motors and ESC choices . It's safe , efficient batteries and BMS that are more the question . Dale has done some great work so far with that .

Where in California are you ? I plan to fly my RV 4 out that way starting late next week .

Marc
Pretty much right in the middle.San Joaquin valley East of Fresno near the edge of the mountains.
Its getting hot down here. Close to 100f days now.I would definitely plan to stay at altitude and or near the coast.
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Old Oct 29, 2014, 05:27 PM
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KiloOne what advantage of direct drive and belt drive propeller. I like to use belt drive for large diameter it can give a lot of thrust. But may have some power loss . What good for your study in this case.
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Old Jun 12, 2015, 11:04 AM
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I just found out about this project and wanted to mention a similar but lower cost version that I just completed using my rigid wing hang glider and components from Hobby King.

The equipment spec's are:
Rotomax 150 motors (2x)
Turnigy 250A dlux HV controller (2x)
Xoar 30x12" props (2x)
14S x 40AH batteries (LI-Po) = 2072 W-Hr

This set up is good for 350 fpm rate of climb with the current limited to 100A per motor for cooling reasons. The aircraft can fly roughly 1/2 hour with 31 lbs of batteries.

Here is a video of the first flight test session:
Electric Powered Millennium Hang Glider (5 min 52 sec)


Steve
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Old Jun 15, 2015, 04:14 PM
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Oleg Golovidov
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Steve, thanks for posting your video and parts list.
Did you get all of your components from Hobby King?
Can you give links? Maybe a total cost estimate?
Total weight of the power system?
How many hours have you flown it now? Any issues? Planned upgrades?
How much time do you need to recharge the batteries from your generator?
What charger(s) do you use?

Sorry for many questions. Thanks in advance.
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Old Jun 18, 2015, 12:08 AM
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Dale?

I was brought to this Site looking for Dale Kramer's thread on the E-Lazair. His last input seems to have been Dec. 2012. Anyone know what he has been up to lately? Did his ideas evolve? Did he have to invest more time in the day-job?

Thank you,

Shawn
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Old Sep 21, 2015, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olgol View Post
Steve, thanks for posting your video and parts list.
Did you get all of your components from Hobby King?
Can you give links? Maybe a total cost estimate?
Total weight of the power system?
How many hours have you flown it now? Any issues? Planned upgrades?
How much time do you need to recharge the batteries from your generator?
What charger(s) do you use?

Sorry for many questions. Thanks in advance.
Sorry for the late response, I just checked back in because I did some more flying in Arizona last week with my electric hang glider (video below). I was able to climb a few hundred feet on 2 flights and then soar for over an hour, gaining over 5000 ft in one thermal. I did not recharge between flights.

Here are some links. You should add up the prices yourself since they may have changed since I purchased mine:
Motors:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_Motor.html
Controller:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...s_60v_ESC.html
Batteries (X16):
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

I also used an RC servo controller as the throttle and a small battery to run the servo controller.

The total weight is roughly 55lbs additional. I have a new charging system that charges the pack in 2 parts, each part is 1/2 the total voltage (7S=25.9V) I bought the chargers on eBay and I also needed an inverter because they run on 220V. I can run them from a Honda generator for a charge time of just over 1 hour (my pack is 2KW-hr). The power supplies are used as battery chargers when properly adjusted for constant current/constant voltage output:
Digital KXN-3040D High-power Switching DC Power Supply 0-30V,0-40A Output
I use 2 of these as well as an inverter for each (I don't have a part number in front of me at the moment.)


Steve

Electric Powered Millennium at SCFR 2015 (6 min 19 sec)
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Old Sep 26, 2015, 12:36 PM
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Beautiful build mlbco !

Any chance of a bit more of a build log, engine mount details, battery mount, controls?

Cheers
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Old Sep 28, 2015, 11:21 PM
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I can't offer a meaningful build log other than the photos and spec's I've published. I'm still working out the details of this system and when I fly with the electric motors a lot of the wiring is zip-tied and taped onto the airplane. The hang glider was originally built by a company I am involved with and it is no longer in production. This aircraft is 14 years old. One of my associates is a composites expert so I just gave him the spec's for the engine mounts and he made some simple composite units in 2 days. He also made the Kevlar-foam-sandwich battery box/headrest. The steerable nose wheel isn't used on the glider version and is overkill, the aircraft is actually nose heavy with it installed. I'm looking to replace it with a smaller lighter unit. The motors are controlled from a single servo driver unit (the kind you plug into a servo to test it without using a radio). The unit was purchased on eBay for $6 and uses it's own 4-cell nicad pack which will last all day.

I've included a picture that shows more details. The motor mounts are held on with 4 small bolts that connect into hard points inside the wing's D-tube. The battery box drops into the original head rest mounts. I mostly fly this airplane as a foot-launched hang glider and it is still fully functional as a hang glider when I remove the motors. There is a lot of stuff on the wing that is necessary for foot launch operation that would not otherwise be needed, like the harness/seat system and the side mounted control stick.

Thanks,

Steve
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Old Mar 16, 2016, 07:33 AM
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Dale
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UPDATE

I know this thread is pretty old and quiet but I am still working on electric flight.
I am hoping there will be 4 eLazairs flying this year. Two of them will use Nissan Leaf battery modules.
I have not been spending a lot of time on the eLazair due to commitments elsewhere and lack of funds to do things quicker.
In that vein, I have come up with an electric flight vehicle design that I hope will appeal to a larger audience and as a result, maybe get some funding for it.
So, I have just launched a Kickstarter campaign to see if the interest is there.
The new design is called the vLazair and rather than repeat all the info here that is on my KS campaign page, here is a link to the KS campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ertical-takeof

I hope you find it interesting.

Dale

Here is a 'Cruise - Hover - Cruise' vLazair flight sequence image:
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Old Mar 18, 2016, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiloOne View Post
UPDATE

I know this thread is pretty old and quiet but I am still working on electric flight.
I am hoping there will be 4 eLazairs flying this year. Two of them will use Nissan Leaf battery modules.
I have not been spending a lot of time on the eLazair due to commitments elsewhere and lack of funds to do things quicker.
In that vein, I have come up with an electric flight vehicle design that I hope will appeal to a larger audience and as a result, maybe get some funding for it.
So, I have just launched a Kickstarter campaign to see if the interest is there.
The new design is called the vLazair and rather than repeat all the info here that is on my KS campaign page, here is a link to the KS campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ertical-takeof

I hope you find it interesting.

Dale

Here is a 'Cruise - Hover - Cruise' vLazair flight sequence image:

Hey Dale, well this is kinda unexpected!

I have been following this thread since day 1 with the hope of you developing a ELazair like you flew at Oshkosh. What ever happened with this and are you shelving the project as I am probably like most that would have liked a low cost easy to fly ELazair.

Thanks,

Dennis
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Old Mar 18, 2016, 11:58 PM
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I don't think I said anything about shelving it.
It is just time and money that is needed, both are in short supply.
If the eLazair is what most people want, then why hasn't anyone offered deposits when they know that funding is a problem (which I have posted a number of times in this thread)? It would be irresponsible for me to fund it nowadays (meaning since I moved to the US and do not have any of the resources my life in Canada created).

Dale
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