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Old Apr 20, 2015, 07:24 PM
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Tamiya Innovator 36" 1/20th Scale yacht

The Tamiya Innovator a 36" 1/20th scale racing yacht was the third and last RC yacht produced by Tamiya in the mid 90's. Many of you are familiar with their Yamaha Round the World model a 1/20th scale replica of the 1994 W60 Class winner of the Whitbread Around the World Race which goes by Volvo these days and their much smaller 40 EX another 1/20th scale replica of the classic Beneteau pleasure yachts of the mid 90's.I have both of the other Tamiya boats and have grown to enjoy their scale details and good sailing manners.

I don't have much information on the Innovator, but hope this thread will be able to yield some good pictures and insights into this the third model yacht produced by one the best scale model makers out there.

I have some very basic specifications which I hope to add to moving forward:
Tamiya Model #56205 Specifications:
Length: 925mm or 36 inches
Height: 2074mm
Width: 145mm
Aluminum keel with lead weight •
hull: ABS with front bumper •
Mast: aluminum (2-piece)
Sails: Polyester

In searching the web for anything I could find on this boat I found these remarks posted on an old RC forum no longer active.

"TAMIYA Model's 36/600 boat which was designed by Mr. Takai, of Takai Yacht Design (Japan). It has quite unique hull shape like the latest RM class boats. As other of his designed boats, it sails fast, but needs proper control to keep speed. If it was stalled, it takes time to get back. This hull is also a good platform to make a 36/600 boat"
(The author is unknown but was originally posted in Chinese, so the translation may leave a little to ones imagination. )

I did find two old sites showing this boat listed at £334.35 and the other at $500 USD. Guessing these numbers were from a time when the boats were in production. I would think the numbers are reasonable based on what their other two boats listed for back in the day. Tamiya marketing liked to price their boats at a premium for sure.

In my conversations with a Tamiya employee here in California, this pricing strategy played a significant roll in limiting to a degree the success of their boats. He believes had they been priced more competitively, they would have become very popular.

Today, the Yamaha has one of the best resale values of any of the boats in this category. Interesting!

OK, so I am inviting your comments, observations and contributions. This post gets the ball rolling.

Boomer
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Old Apr 20, 2015, 07:33 PM
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Just thinking ------ I think they would have produced an awesome RG65 if that class had been more popular back then - on a world-wide basis. Hmmmm - maybe talk to your "contact" and have him/her submit an employee suggestion - just point to DF65 sales as an example of target buyers they missed.
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Old Apr 20, 2015, 07:41 PM
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Found a few more pictures of a couple of Innovators out for a day of sailing in Germany. Posted on the Tamiya Club web site in 2003, but the pictures show they were taken in 2000. Be nice if the owner were to join us here.
I am sure he could provide some good information!
Think his name is Danny, a good German name
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Old Apr 20, 2015, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick L. View Post
Just thinking ------ I think they would have produced an awesome RG65 if that class had been more popular back then - on a world-wide basis. Hmmmm - maybe talk to your "contact" and have him/her submit an employee suggestion - just point to DF65 sales as an example of target buyers they missed.
Dick
I am sure if Tamiya were to commit to such a project it'd be a very nice boat, but expensive. I could certainly make the suggestion but I'd want to give the guy some hard data to share so his suggestion to the powers to be in Japan would have some facts to go along with it so they could see the potential. Whatever that might be.

I recall someone mentioning 6000 units or thereabouts have been sold, while impressive, I am not so sure those numbers would motivate them to spend the investment capital to get back into the business, especially at the low price those boats sell for?? Question to be addressed is what is the market cap? I wouldn't want to be the one to "gin up" that number.

Spent many years as a Marketing Director and now I am happy to be retired. I don't miss the "running the numbers" sessions often ending up being a "SWAG". Seriously, some things are not to hard to determine, others not so much

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Old Apr 24, 2015, 03:57 PM
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Just received a couple of pictures from Harry showing his newly acquired "new in the box" Innovator. Kind interesting that the hull appears to be gray and not white. In all of the pictures I've seen in the past the boats are white.

May have to contact Tamiya to determine what's with the gray hull? Harry will be sending more photos as he unpacks his newly acquired treasures. What a find!

If your wondering where in the world he found these two treasures together, Harry lives in Holland and had drive about 200 miles to pick up his new boats. Well worth the time and effort for sure.

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Old Apr 25, 2015, 03:07 PM
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OK - just got another batch of photos from Harry. I asked him to put the Innovator next to his Yamaha so we could see the differences between these two
boat's designs.

The differences are significant - The Innovator is almost free of scale details compared to Tamiya's other two boats. Interesting to see the departure from one style to this more race oriented design. If you expand the images showing the installation of the servo tray you can see that the builder has incorporated bulk heads to strengthen the hull much like full size boats have.

Very interesting boom vang set up as well. I am hoping Harry decides to build this boat, so we can develop more insights into this very interesting boat.

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Old Apr 25, 2015, 10:37 PM
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Like the looks of this boat. Too bad there's not more like this available.
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Old Apr 26, 2015, 04:11 AM
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dear members.


yes a Lucky find indeed.
it was a combo deal,the shop needed more room ,i was glad to help.
they also had a nib robbe smaragd,big heavy boat.
mr.boomer sir dont get your hopes to high,i am not going to buidl it.
afer the pics and scanning the manual,i will put an add for it.
it can be shipped to usa,for rougly $70.insured.
boomer gets the first choice.
i like my victoria and yamaha,maybe get an ex40.
with the help of boomer we will put all the info of the innovator in this topic.
a rare boat for sure,the mast is real thin alloy,on an old german topic i have read they swapped it with a carbon one.
also the joiner that comes with the mast is way heavey,any weight saving on the thin wall mast is waisted.
fokker ace;the shape of the hull looks iom/rg 65 style.
there are similar boats for sale,but hefty pricetags.
take a look at frank nylets webpage.
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Old Apr 26, 2015, 10:16 AM
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Harry
Thank you for your kind offer. I sent you an email to further explore the possibilities. I am sorry you won't be building the Innovator but understand your decision.

It would be great to be able to document the build and get some videos of it sailing with it's other family members.(the Yamaha and the 40EX) Likely to be a once in a lifetime kind of thing.

Thank you again for your kind offer.

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Old May 18, 2015, 11:29 AM
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Just got some new pictures of an Innovator that was recently sold on Trade Me (a Kiwi mini-ebay) It was missing the rudder but other than that pretty much complete. I am curious about the boat's design. The hull is unusual - submarine like shape, the main's boom design is certainly interesting as well. The keel is also very interesting - kind of cool really. Tamiya must of thought the boat would raced since they designed it with a bow bumper.
Anyone have any thoughts on the design?

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Old May 18, 2015, 01:28 PM
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I can't say I've ever seen a jib sprung that high, (how's the weather up there?) or from the center of the boom like that.
I wonder what they were thinking, or was this assembled incorrectly?

The hull form certainly looks like it was ahead of its time for a retail hobby store boat!
It looks similar to today's RG65/IOM hulls.
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Old May 18, 2015, 01:46 PM
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That inverted boom vang has been done on other boats (real and model) and I guess it depends on your construction and anticipated loads. It is nice to get the main clew out of the water, as the skinny hulls can be a bit tender. Don't know what to think of the keel. Is it stock? At some point the trade-off between righting moment and drag starts to loose out, not to mention needing three feet of water to sail.
The idea of a wave piercing hull design is to keep the sail plan operating in the same air all the time. If the hull 'hobby horses' over each wave, a tall rig amplifies the movement and you get weird aerodynamics. Look at the high performance cats these days. It looks like they put the hulls on upside down. Diminishing buoyancy as the water line comes up.
Didn't read the listing too close, but why is the jib boom tied so high off the deck. A bit more drive, for a whole lot more healing moment.

Dave
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Old May 18, 2015, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1 View Post
Just got some new pictures of an Innovator that was recently sold on Trade Me (a Kiwi mini-ebay) It was missing the rudder but other than that pretty much complete. I am curious about the boat's design. The hull is unusual - submarine like shape, the main's boom design is certainly interesting as well. The keel is also very interesting - kind of cool really. Tamiya must of thought the boat would raced since they designed it with a bow bumper.
Anyone have any thoughts on the design?

Boomer
Definitely similar in design as some modern RG65's. But:

- Fin looks too thin: too easy to stall/sail sideways.
- Rigging looks very bad: too much mast rake, jib too high and way too far from mast. Easy to repair.
- New sails needed. That level of wrinkles are beyond any hope.
- No rudder?

Regarding hull shape, I dot not think this guy pierces waves. Would love to see a vid...
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Old May 18, 2015, 03:09 PM
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Scratchy101
If you look at the pictures posted earlier, you can see that the set up is the way it is designed and is pretty much set up correctly. The red boat looks like it was in storage and the sails were rolled up and stored in a sock drawer ( Obviously sails need to be stored carefully not like this fellow did)

Dave
The keel is the original factory keel. I have seen similar shaped keels before but not made of the raw aluminum. I have called Tamiya in Southern California to see if anyone there could shed some light on this design, but was told all the guys that might know are in Japan. Might be a language issue if I tried to call them

Appreciate your insights on the rigging other issues. My friend Harry is reluctant to ship the boat to the U.S. , so I am not optimistic I will be able to put one together for evaluation at this point. I am hoping some one here in the U.S. may have one stored away and will come forward.

What I have read is ◦Takai Yacht Design (Japan) is responsible for the design. I am doing some research on him to see if i can find some pictures of boats he's designed. His name seems to be well recognized in the Yacht design field so perhaps the Innovator has a good blood line? I see his name (Osamu Takai) in articles about America's Cup racing boats back in the late 80s and early 90's. which is the about right for this boats vintage. In the original text I found it suggests this a RM like boat (Radio Marblehead) which is 50" long - much bigger boat but there is a similarity there for sure.

Coming from a power boat background my understanding of sailboats is limited to what I have learned since getting involved in RC sailing. While I have been on number of sailboats in the past, I never got into sailing. Thought they were too
slow. Like fast boats! Still do, but love sailing now!

Still learning
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