Originally Posted by thunder1

Our problems aren't created by the fed. They are created by corporations corrupting politicians who control the fed. The gold standard is not any kind of way out of our mess at this point. That's simply a dog that won't hunt.

I believe that every current function of government is fully constitutional.

I'm optimistic enough to feel that with proper management of our debt, and cutting the right spending, we can work out our problems. Our nation needs to learn that spending huge amounts of money chasing bad guys half way around the world is counter-productive. That, along with trying to make every aspect of our lives as safe and secure as can be with crippling drug laws and insane security requirements, and we have a millstone around our necks the size of the moon.

I have no doubt if the "yous" and "mes" of this fine nation were to get together and straighten things out, we'd be in fine shape. But there are too many on both of our sides dragging us into the nonsense to make any headway. There is too much money involved, too much corporate influence over government, to allow a reasonable recovery.

There are so many cases where this is not true.

If we are talking about the federal reserve this is not the case because it is congresses' job to, "To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;" ... So your counter point to this might be, well the fed is an agency that is part of congress. But this is not the case, as it was only just recently we(congress) have been given auditing power over it. Currently the only form of auditing power we have is Dodd-frank, as the Fed Reserve Transparency Act will likely fail in the senate.

If we are talking about NDAA / Patriot Act (warrentless wiretapping and indefinite detention) these are all violations to our bill of right's 4,5, 6 & 8 amendments.

While the TSA is a government agency they are in direct conflict to our 4th amendment.

It is also unconstitutional for us to have aided the UN in their quest for a no- fly zone on libya. It was undeclared.

Originally Posted by Treetop

Jest? Hardly. Within the document, the US Constitution, is the arbiter of determining what is and is not legal for the government to do. That would be the courts. The court can be wrong, they are human and subject to err. They ruled segregated public schools were unconstitutional, they ruled on Obamacare, they ruled on a woman's right to choose, and they ruled on campaign finance reform, and they are about to hear challenges to some parts of Affirmative Action.

So your or any citizens interpretation of what is constitutional is simply an opinion and will have differing weights depending on what that opinion is. At one time the court ruled that child labor laws were unconstitutional.

The way around the court ruling is amendment. Once an amendment is passed, the court must honor that amendment as part of the document, unless later repealed.

The arguments of what some citizens interpret are or are not constitutional are tiring. The Supreme Court is the arbiter of what is legal under that document, and what they say goes, until someone offers a challenge that is accepted by the court as valid. The idea that every item of importance to a nation could individually be either anticipated or listed in one document is ridiculous. The Bill of Rights are themselves amendments, after all. Many of the framers of the constitution considered them to be superfluous. But others demanded them in order to consent to ratification of the original.

Hell at this point lets just throw all the rules away then, since apparently we (citizens) just aren't intelligent enough for interpretation. If you have a disagreement about what people are saying or interpreting the constitution as, give your point and interpretation. Don't beat around the bush and say that just because we aren't each supreme court justices that we can have no meaningful interpretation.

Originally Posted by Yeaman

Hell at this point lets just throw all the rules away then, since apparently we (citizens) just aren't intelligent enough for interpretation. If you have a disagreement about what people are saying or interpreting the constitution as, give your point and interpretation. Don't beat around the bush and say that just because we aren't each supreme court justices that we can have no meaningful interpretation.

You can interpret to your hearts content, and many of us can interpret much of the document, however, any disagreement about what is and what is not allowed under that document, our interpretation will not be considered in the determination. as private citizens unless we enter the judicial and are empowered in that capacity to reach a determination.

I don't need to prove anyone wrong, and I do disagree with some of the so called "constitutionalists" about what is allowed, but they are making determinations that have rulings on them are not constitutional. They could be right, but only the court has the power to make a ruling on it that counts. I strongly disagree with Scalia's rewording of the second amendment in order to express support for the ruling they made in DC. In his majority brief, he added a word which I guess he thinks was to be assumed. As if it magically came to him as a whisper in his ear from Madison. I disagree with that.

Originally Posted by Treetop

As you can see, recessions cause more people to fall into poverty. Frankly, since we had the worst economic downturn under Bush II since the great depression, it is pretty remarkable that the level of poverty today is about the same as it was when Reagan and Bush I were president. It appears that something that happened under Johnson lifted about 10-12% out of poverty. Can you perhaps define what that was?

Just like the Obama phones... many folks know how to use the system..

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...rs_654145.html

Originally Posted by flyzwell

Service based jobs are not enough to support our economy. We need to put people to work manufacturing.

I don't think manufacturing is coming back unless some new invention comes along like the steam engine, railroad, combustion engine, electricity, or computers.

This is something I do not understand. If a little country like Germany can do it why not a big country like the US.
Germany is a manufactoring country and its products are expensive, but everybody wants them, Made in Germany stands for something, why can not Made in the USA stand for the same thing and employ.

Originally Posted by rcjetpilot

Just like the Obama phones... many folks know how to use the system..

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...rs_654145.html

Yes, and those programs are managed at the state and local level. They have been furloughed, laid off, and under hiring freeze where I live. So they have a large workload increase, and no manpower to take care of that. Obama's second stimulus was to be direct payment to state and local governments to be used to keep some of these folks on the job. Of course when the labor is shrunk, and the workload increased, anyone can see this sets up problems.

So, if you have lost your job and your house, have kids to feed, of course it is to your advantage to use the system. Or is it better to starve? I don't actually know what you are complaining about. The "obamaphone" phony propaganda is a discount of $9 dollars on a phone, higher in some states due to states chipping in some of their money. However, the proper term would be Reaganphone, as the program started in his presidency.

Do you folks vet anything or just believe what sounds good?

Ryan looks and acts like a guy that could step into the President's job.

Biden looks like a pre-demencia, angry old guy an expert at yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

Romney/Ryan big win! Two more to go then on to a shellacking of Obama/Biden in November.

Originally Posted by Big Foot 48

Ryan looks and acts like a guy that could step into the President's job.

Biden looks like a pre-demencia, angry old guy an expert at yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

Romney/Ryan big win! Two more to go then on to a shellacking of Obama/Biden in November.

Well it's your country - if Paul Ryan's sketchy and exceedingly flacid master fix is something you can put your faith in - go for it!

Originally Posted by Treetop

The US actually exports more than ever, we are close to Germany and third in the world behind China. Our issues are that in the past we produced most of what we consumed, today, we have replaced that with imports from Asia, mainly. Even heavier items like appliances are being made in Mexico, and we had a lot of companies move production to Mexico. So the balance of trade is way out of whack.

This is very interesting though. I have not heard anyone suggest, other than green energy, which we have lagged behind the rest of the world in the current crop of wind and solar, although we do produce a lot of wind energy components here, and things such as raw carbon fiber for those massive blades, it is really too late for that to be the saving grace of job production.

This kind of brings into focus the futility of the discussion by the candidates on Job production. What are we going to do? What will be the new industry which will employ Americans at a wage we need to afford the basics and hopefully a home and tuition for our kids? I have heard nothing outside of the forecast increases in current employment in traditional fields like software engineers and health care.

You're 'close' to Germany

Sheesh - you oughta be more than that - there's a cool 300 million of you

Originally Posted by Schrott

This is something I do not understand. If a little country like Germany can do it why not a big country like the US.
Germany is a manufactoring country and its products are expensive, but everybody wants them, Made in Germany stands for something, why can not Made in the USA stand for the same thing and employ.

I hear what ya saying but there to totally different Mindsets..
you can not compare the two,
have you actually talk to a liberal lately? there the reason Bosch is made in China...Not Germany.

Originally Posted by Big Foot 48

Ryan looks and acts like a guy that could step into the President's job.

.

Oh GOD I would hope not, he's about as goofy as a S t ditch rat.

Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE

You're 'close' to Germany

Sheesh - you oughta be more than that - there's a cool 300 million of you

Per capita, Germany rules. Per Capita, China is tiny, the US not much larger.

Found a great site for Charts on this stuff and lots more...

http://chartsbin.com/

Oh, and as you can see from this forum, some of us are not cool!

Originally Posted by Treetop

Per capita, Germany rules. Per Capita, China is tiny, the US not much larger.

Found a great site for Charts on this stuff and lots more...

http://chartsbin.com/

Oh, and as you can see from this forum, some of us are not cool!

Yer all cool - yah play with toy planes - QED

Originally Posted by Big Foot 48

Ryan looks and acts like a guy that could step into the President's job.

Biden looks like a pre-demencia, angry old guy an expert at yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

Romney/Ryan big win! Two more to go then on to a shellacking of Obama/Biden in November.

Only if you are comparing him to Palin.

Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk

Only if you are comparing him to Palin.

Oh goodness, not you too.