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Old Dec 10, 2014, 09:32 AM
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Old Dec 10, 2014, 10:53 AM
Aka: Ralph
Canada, ON, Hamilton
Joined Nov 2012
314 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoren View Post
Don't worry about the decalage of a Mystique. With a full flying stabilizer it is sort of meaningless. Get your CG at the factory recommended setting, the stab as per the manual and fly it. Fly and trim it. Land, adjust the CG 1 or 2 mm back and repeat. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. You will find a trim and CG that suits your flying style.

Alan
From a rookie perspective I'm not sure if decalage is meaningless. I would prefer to have a full flying stabilizer that is up 1 degree using an incident angle meter on that first test glide flight rather than guessing whether the stabilizer is at the correct angle. The Mystique is a prime example. The manufacture got the stabilizer position wrong and I'm sure that created a few tense moments. I am still a rookie pilot so I like to take some precautions as this is my second Mystique.

FYI
I enjoy being corrected as this is the only way to learn
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Old Dec 10, 2014, 11:09 AM
Kurt Zimmerman ≡LSF 4461≡
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Montrose, NY
Joined May 2003
1,393 Posts
In response to full-flying stabilizers and incident settings, brings to me a question. How many pilots out there hand-toss their model before they attempt a power launch of any kind? Normal steps I take are as follows:

1) Range check TX/RX
2) Double check CG
3) Make sure everything wiggles in the right direction
4) Make as many as 6 hand tosses. This allows me to double check stab incidents, CG and control surface throw settings.

I want to see a nice flat glide before I apply any power to my plane, be it motorized or winch. This way I know the plane WILL FLY. I will then spend the remaining part of the day making sure all throws are correct making minor changes through all my TX mode settings.

This may sound rather basic however I get the feeling that not everyone goes through this process. I have ironed out many issues by going through those steps that would have resulted in a disastrous outcome if I didn't

just saying.
Kurt
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Old Dec 10, 2014, 11:27 AM
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Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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Funny, I have not done a power off hand glider test in 10 years and 15 models. Yes, I do double check controls. But maiden flight is power on at launch and get away from the ground asap. Then trim to taste. Must less chance of damage imho by having more control and more energy to avoid problems. I am not a fast ball kinda guy and I will not run and toss a model.

The newbie wanting to get a one degree up trim caused me to smile. I doubt he could tell difference. For full flying stab, center elevator in slot. Balance as per instructions. Power on full and givery a good shove. Fly. Enjoy.

Many newbies think nose heavy is safe and go overboard. Then they have problems wi th stall and blame the plane. The problem Is Their setup not the plane.
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Old Dec 10, 2014, 11:32 AM
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Old Dec 10, 2014, 11:36 AM
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United States, CA, Barstow
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Originally Posted by JimNM View Post
Funny, I have not done a power off hand glider test in 10 years and 15 models. Yes, I do double check controls. But maiden flight is power on at launch and get away from the ground asap. Then trim to taste. Must less chance of damage imho by having more control and more energy to avoid problems. I am not a fast ball kinda guy and I will not run and toss a model.

The newbie wanting to get a one degree up trim caused me to smile. I doubt he could tell difference. For full flying stab, center elevator in slot. Balance as per instructions. Power on full and givery a good shove. Fly. Enjoy.

Many newbies think nose heavy is safe and go overboard. Then they have problems wi th stall and blame the plane. The problem Is Their setup not the plane.
Amen brother.
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Old Dec 10, 2014, 11:46 AM
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Old Dec 10, 2014, 12:52 PM
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Canada, ON, Pickering
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I must agree, after many years I do not like the 'power off glide test' I have seen too many very pricey moldies get seriously damaged by hard throw, stall at 8 -10ft and then the inevitable smash nose into the ground. Every time I do it on one of my TD non powered gliders it makes me sweat.
Half to 3/4 power level throw will give you a chance to react and power out from a stall if needed to get to 3 mistakes high, then trim. Best have someone else launch and be ready on the sticks.
When you fly regular power models you do not test glide right?
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Old Dec 11, 2014, 09:26 PM
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United States, NY, Hamburg
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I hand toss even my 80 oz sailplanes,,,, I would rather have a problem 8 ft off the ground than hundreds.
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Old Dec 12, 2014, 03:32 PM
Kurt Zimmerman ≡LSF 4461≡
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Montrose, NY
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Originally Posted by tailsld View Post
I hand toss even my 80 oz sailplanes,,,, I would rather have a problem 8 ft off the ground than hundreds.
I will do the same. I agree there are limitations to when not to test glide a plane. However I remember the days when Tom Keisling would hand-toss his Mantis and sky it out, not saying his Mantis was 80 ozs.

The point is safety first. Do what you feel is the most safe. I live by my habits and like tailsld said, rather find a problem at 8ft off the ground vs. a few hundred.

Just saying
Kurt
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Old Dec 12, 2014, 04:08 PM
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Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
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8 feet is not much room to make a save from, as the plane is near stall and near the ground.

Altitude is life.
Speed (power) is life insurance

Fly it like you like it. There are many skins on every cat. Winch and hi start launches don't have the option of turning it off. Epower planes do....
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Old Dec 12, 2014, 08:41 PM
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Hi starts cant be depowered but a winch, take your foot off the pedal .
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Old Dec 12, 2014, 11:34 PM
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I agree 100 percent

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruck View Post
I must agree, after many years I do not like the 'power off glide test' I have seen too many very pricey moldies get seriously damaged by hard throw, stall at 8 -10ft and then the inevitable smash nose into the ground. Every time I do it on one of my TD non powered gliders it makes me sweat.
Half to 3/4 power level throw will give you a chance to react and power out from a stall if needed to get to 3 mistakes high, then trim. Best have someone else launch and be ready on the sticks.
When you fly regular power models you do not test glide right?
Particularly for a newbie the power off glide is a death trap for the spinner and all things attached. I think running with it and holding it makes more sense than that blasted hand toss. It sounds so simple to do the hand toss unpowered but boy did I smack the daylights out of one glider that way years ago.

At any rate a CG mishap or trim issue is way easier to react to with over a hundred feet of air below the craft than toss height. I'm just super careful airboat CG prior and make sure I have my controls at least zeroed.

the most painful memories of a glider I've got are botched hand tosses when I started out.

Pete
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Old Dec 13, 2014, 12:17 PM
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moreno valley california
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then there are us scale guys who latch the front end to tow plane and then cross our fingers.

CG shouldn't be such a huge issue. it can be calculated mathematically and inferred by the experiences of others. there is nothing wrong with first flew flights being nose heavy as it provides a little comfort - which is what I did with my mystique. too much emphasis is placed on a single point when CG is really a range. the mystique isn't a floater so a hand launch has to be pretty brisk to get it to fly. I would run with my floaters but the mystique I loaded up the nose and then powered up. with a good toss it flew out of my hands and 20 minutes later I landed....after several flights I gradually lightened up the nose until I found my spot.
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