SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:58 AM
Registered User
Rugby, UK
Joined Feb 2007
876 Posts
Data
Haiyin 3S2200 20C Test

Having seen good reports of the new Haiyin Packs, I decided to run a test on a 3S2200 20C pack and here are the results.
I always run a new pack through 1C,2C and 5C cycles before running high power tests and ensure it is properly balanced.
Discharge tests are then run at 5C intervals up to the max rating of the pack providing the pack does not display excessive stress such as dangerous temperature rise, which many do.

The pack performed very well and 20C seemed so far within its capabilities that I ran a 25C discharge and it coped well with that also although the flat curve suggested that it was near its limit.The "C" rating therefore appears to be conservative - a pleasant change from the usual hype!
I would not suggest using it as a 25C pack but conservative ratings suggest longer life.

Wayne
Wayne Giles is online now Find More Posts by Wayne Giles
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 10, 2013, 11:28 AM
Registered User
So. Cal.
Joined Oct 2004
8,188 Posts
Nice test and fantastic data collection Wayne! Haiyin are now officially on my short list of lipolys to try after my current lipolys get tired.

Will be interesting to see how they hold up over time.

Mark
mrforsyth is offline Find More Posts by mrforsyth
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2014, 06:39 AM
AKA Amraam
Newcastle, England
Joined Feb 2007
640 Posts
Shame this thread has had such little attention. I use 6S 5000mAh and they're as good as 50C ultras from competitors that cost almost twice as much.
Plane Hazza is offline Find More Posts by Plane Hazza
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2014, 08:19 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,768 Posts
I'm less impressed. I tend to agree with the original post in that they are genuinely rated at 20c, but that's about their limit.
I have three 6s 2650mAh 20-30c Haiyin batteries that I used in a 500 heli and while they performed 'ok' they showed a lot of voltage sag under hard use (60-70 Amps or so burst) and the rotor RPM would 'bog down'. I have an alarm on my telemetry set at 20.5v (3.4v per cell) which activated every time I did any hard collective input, even on fresh batteries. This actually correlates very well with the discharge curve posted by the OP, so clearly it's not just my batteries.
I replaced with 2700mAh 65c Nanotechs from Hobbyking and the heli was totally transformed. It had far more punch, never bogged down, and the low voltage alarm has never activated since even on very hard flying and near end of the battery run time. It's like I fitted a supercharger compared to how it was on the Haiyins.

IR measured with my iCharger is about double for the Hayin vs. the Nano.

Given that here in the UK the price of the the 20c Haiyin (from Electriflyer) and that of the 65c Nanotech is the same (actually the Nano is pennies cheaper) I'd take the Nano every time without question. It's not that the Haiyin is a bad battery, it's honestly rated for a 20c battery and for low demand applications will perform just fine, but it doesn't even come close to living up to the hype of being equal to 50c batteries, and it's way over priced for a 20c battery.
JetPlaneFlyer is online now Find More Posts by JetPlaneFlyer
Last edited by JetPlaneFlyer; Jul 04, 2014 at 08:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2014, 03:11 PM
Registered User
Rugby, UK
Joined Feb 2007
876 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I'm less impressed. I tend to agree with the original post in that they are genuinely rated at 20c, but that's about their limit.
I have three 6s 2650mAh 20-30c Haiyin batteries that I used in a 500 heli and while they performed 'ok' they showed a lot of voltage sag under hard use (60-70 Amps or so burst) and the rotor RPM would 'bog down'. I have an alarm on my telemetry set at 20.5v (3.4v per cell) which activated every time I did any hard collective input, even on fresh batteries. This actually correlates very well with the discharge curve posted by the OP, so clearly it's not just my batteries.
I replaced with 2700mAh 65c Nanotechs from Hobbyking and the heli was totally transformed. It had far more punch, never bogged down, and the low voltage alarm has never activated since even on very hard flying and near end of the battery run time. It's like I fitted a supercharger compared to how it was on the Haiyins.

IR measured with my iCharger is about double for the Hayin vs. the Nano.

Given that here in the UK the price of the the 20c Haiyin (from Electriflyer) and that of the 65c Nanotech is the same (actually the Nano is pennies cheaper) I'd take the Nano every time without question. It's not that the Haiyin is a bad battery, it's honestly rated for a 20c battery and for low demand applications will perform just fine, but it doesn't even come close to living up to the hype of being equal to 50c batteries, and it's way over priced for a 20c battery.
JPF,

This is interesting in that my results look opposite.

I am not trying to start an argument about which is better, but it supports my long held belief that there is such a large variation in performance of supposedly the same lipo type that it often becomes a lottery. Possibly because many lipo 'brands' change their cell suppliers or their chemistry.

I am assuming that the Nano Tech lipo you are using are not 'A' spec types but just standard Nano Techs(?)

I did a full test of the equivalent NanoTech pack to the Haiyin (except that it was 25C instead of the Haiyin's 20C) some years back and was very disappointed with the results. Thus I can draw a direct comparison from my results.
The Nanotech average cell IR was 9.2m.ohms @ 25*C
The Haiyin average cell IR was 4.1m.ohms @25*C

Below is a graph with the two discharge plots superimposed so that you can see a direct comparison which supports the above IR figures with the Haiyin significantly better.
I did have two of the Nanotechs and they were both the same so it was not an oddball pack, although I only had a single Haiyin.

Wayne
Wayne Giles is online now Find More Posts by Wayne Giles
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2014, 04:03 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,812 Posts
BAck in Jan. 2012 I tested a 3S 500 an 3S 800 20C but not up to 20C more like 12C and was not all that impressed.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1581812
everydayflyer is offline Find More Posts by everydayflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2014, 04:27 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,768 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Giles View Post
JPF,

This is interesting in that my results look opposite.
Wayne,

Our tests are not comparative, you were testing a 25c Noanotech, I was testing a 65c Nanotech (but A-spec).

It might be argued that testing a 65c Nanotech against a 20c Haiyin is unfair, however as the Nanotech is slightly cheaper I would disagree.

You dont say what cell size it was that you got your i.r. numbers off?
FWIW my 2650mAh Haiyins came with a little card indicating i.r. for each cell, the numbers were in the 6-7 mOhm range. My iCharger confirmed these numbers and they did not change significantly over the time I had the batteries.

The Nanos are between 2 and 2.5mOhm (average of 2.2) for a 2700mAh cell size.
JetPlaneFlyer is online now Find More Posts by JetPlaneFlyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2014, 09:07 AM
Registered User
So. Cal.
Joined Oct 2004
8,188 Posts
Wayne's cells were 2200mAh. 4.1mOhm/cell for a 2200mAh lipoly pack is outstanding, especially for one that carries a 20C discharge rating.

I have some 2200mAh packs that carry a 60C rating and had IR of ~11mOhm/cell when new and only improved slightly after break-in cycles. There's zero question that Wayne's 20C Haiyin's will outperform my 60C packs by a good margin.

As has been noted, a single pack does not a trend make. However, given their price, I would certainly consider the Haiyin's in my particular applications.

Mark
mrforsyth is offline Find More Posts by mrforsyth
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2014, 09:37 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,768 Posts
Mark,

Maybe you missed my post? I don't dispute Wayne's data but his data (taken from a single battery a while ago) in no way supports any claim that the batteries are equal to (legitimately rated) batteries of far higher rating. They are decent 20c batteries and that's the best you can say for them. If they were priced comparitive to other budget 20c batteries then fine, but they are not.

Based on the three Haiyins I purchased this year:
  • I.r. measured both by the UK Haiyin distributor and by my iCharger 4010 Duo was around 7mOhm for my 2650mAh Haiyins. This compares with 2.2mOhn for 65c Nanotechs, which by the way are cheaper than the 20c Haiyins. I can only conclude that Wayne's measurements are not comparative to mine due to being measured on different equipment.
  • In flight performance bears out the difference in internal resistance. The difference in flight is simply night and day in favour or the Nanotechs.

Given that the Nanotechs are slightly cheaper and perform better by a massive margin I cannot recommend the Haiyins.
JetPlaneFlyer is online now Find More Posts by JetPlaneFlyer
Last edited by JetPlaneFlyer; Jul 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2014, 10:01 AM
Registered User
So. Cal.
Joined Oct 2004
8,188 Posts
Understood.

Longevity is another consideration, at least for me personally and why I have an affinity for premium lipolys. I am not familiar with Haiyin longevity but I have several friends who have experienced atrocious longevity (primarily premature puffing) with nanotechs. If HK has resolved this, I would add them to my list to consider.
mrforsyth is offline Find More Posts by mrforsyth
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2014, 10:44 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,768 Posts
Yes, I've had Nanotechs puff up very early too. It was a while ago I had the issues and it was with the lower rated versions (25c).

I've not had any problems with ones purchased more recently with rating 45c and above. So I'm concluding that either they have sorted out the problem or the higher rated ones are less effected.
JetPlaneFlyer is online now Find More Posts by JetPlaneFlyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2014, 11:43 AM
Registered User
Rugby, UK
Joined Feb 2007
876 Posts
JPF,

The difference between the old Nanotechs and the A series appears to be huge, they may well be from different manufacturers. I have not tested any A series but other peoples results suggest they are very good cells.
Both the Haiyin and std. Nanotech I tested were all 2200mAh.

If we put all the IR results we have into the Lipotool (http://www.jj604.com/LiPoTool/), we get the following real C values

Haiyin 2200 20C - 26C which agrees with my 25C discharge; ok but at limit.
Std. Nanotech. 2200 25C. - 17C. Agrees with my 20C discharge; really struggling.
A series Nanotech 2700 65C. - 39C. I have never tested a lipo which is a true 40C and all testers seem to concur that the very best lipos are just about capable of 35 - 40C.

So the 20C Haiyin is more capable than the 25C std Nanotech, but not as good as the A series Nanotech, but who tells the truth about C rating?

Wayne
Wayne Giles is online now Find More Posts by Wayne Giles
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12, 2014, 12:04 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,768 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Giles View Post
So the 20C Haiyin is more capable than the 25C std Nanotech, but not as good as the A series Nanotech, but who tells the truth about C rating?
The nanos I have are not the A-Spec, just the standard 65c Nanotech.

As for telling the truth... I don't think any manufacturer tells the truth about 65c batteries, even premium manufacturers like Thunder power and indeed Haiyin's own 'Scorpion 65c' packs.

So no one tells the truth

Having said that based on my sample of three Haiyins and four 65c nanotech, the ir of the nanotechs is about 1/3rd of the Haiyin, so the ratings might not be too exaggerated at least comparatively?

To be honest i don't care too much who tells the truth and who doesn't. I just want the best performing battery that i can get for my money, and based on my experience the Haiyin isn't it. It may be an honestly rated 20c battery but it doesnt compare to 50c + batteries (priced comparatively) as is the claim I often hear.
JetPlaneFlyer is online now Find More Posts by JetPlaneFlyer
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale 3x SKY LIPO 3300 6s 20c/40c N Blue Lipo 3000 20c x5heli Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 1 Jan 29, 2013 03:52 PM
Discussion HAIYIN 3S 500 mAh 20C everydayflyer Batteries and Chargers 12 Mar 07, 2012 06:13 PM
Discussion HAIYIN 20C 3S 800 mAh everydayflyer Batteries and Chargers 1 Feb 15, 2012 09:22 AM
Sold Electric Power 3S2200 20C-30C Battery Pack New gliders Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 2 Oct 25, 2007 09:16 PM
For Sale Electric Power 3S2200 (2 packs) 20C **Price Lowered** gliders Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 0 Jan 16, 2007 02:35 PM