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Old Jan 18, 2012, 04:46 AM
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53859 Niederkassel, Germany
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Originally Posted by FAI_guy View Post
... at least the results appear to agree with the general impression most participants and spectators (me included) had about the event. ...
No offense, but when talking to the pilots, which I had plenty of time to do so during all those breaks, I came to exactly the opposite impression.

Jürgen
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 10:07 AM
Jan Spatny
Czech republic
Joined Nov 2004
205 Posts
WArtG

Quote:
No offense, but when talking to the pilots, which I had plenty of time to do so during all those breaks, I came to exactly the opposite impression.

Jürgen
Jürgen,
are you sure that you and pilots considered all judged criteria, or is your impression based only on flight performance?

Jan
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by HonzaS View Post
Jürgen,
are you sure that you and pilots considered all judged criteria, or is your impression based only on flight performance?

Jan
Judging criteria:

Technique

Excecution precision -> max. score = 10
Use of the full range of the flight envelope -> max. score = 2
Versatility -> max. score = 8

Artistic Quality

Synchronisation with music -> max. score = 14
Pleasing and continuous flow of figures -> max. score = 8
Contrasting periods -> max. score = 10

Overall Appearance

Use of the full performance zone -> max. score = 6
Presenting figures in their best orientation -> max. score = 2

Jürgen

P.S.: The score awarded by each judge is supposed to be displayed immediately after each flight. Unfortunately, not even the pilots got their individual scores.
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Last edited by Jurgen Heilig; Jan 19, 2012 at 03:23 AM. Reason: Typo fixed
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 11:14 AM
Jan Spatny
Czech republic
Joined Nov 2004
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Yes, that should be judged (and based on flight). As we know, some judged (at least) one more criteria... Will we see you in Prague?

Jan
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Honzo,

This is exactly as with F3A pattern : pilots make a score assessment based on the flight as a whole without taking into account the individual K-factors. In addition, at least some of the pilots in Belgium based their impression on the F3P-AFM judging system, which is quite wrong with AeroMusicals. Just one example :with F3P-AFM, it is stated that the pilot must fly all manoeuvers either parallel or perpendicular to the safety line. With AeroMusicals this is all wrong and a reason to downgrade for unsufficient use of the flight space.

Also the 2012 rules show seven scoring criteria, not eight as Jürgen writes. All competitors received the 2012 rules but, clearly, many music pieces were inadequate, usually because of a severe unbalance between the slow and the fast parts of the music.

We'll see in Prague how it works. Have you an idea of the number of Czech pilots entering ?

FAI guy
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FAI_guy View Post
...
Just one example :with F3P-AFM, it is stated that the pilot must fly all manoeuvers either parallel or perpendicular to the safety line. With AeroMusicals this is all wrong and a reason to downgrade for unsufficient use of the flight space.
...FAI guy
Back to nitpicking again? Please don't quote out of context.

Quote:
Manoeuvres should be positioned in parallel or rectangular to the safety line. Poorly governed, unplanned or casually flown manoeuvres will be downgraded.
This is not wrong at all, as the pilot shows his piloting skills, that he is in control of his model, positions his manoeuvres for best visibilty to the spectators and is not just flying "random manoeuvres". Please note that the word "should" is used - not "shall" or "must".

Jürgen
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FAI_guy View Post
...
Also the 2012 rules show seven scoring criteria, not eight as Jürgen writes. All competitors received the 2012 rules but, clearly, many music pieces were inadequate, usually because of a severe unbalance between the slow and the fast parts of the music. ...
FAI guy
Nitpicking? Please note the "huge" difference between the 2011 and 2012 F6B judging criteria :

Judging criteria:

Technique

Excecution precision -> max. score = 10
Use of the full range of the flight envelope -> max. score = 2
Versatility -> maxc. score = 8

Artistic Quality

Synchronisation with music -> max. score = 14
Pleasing and continuous flow of figures -> max. score = 8
Contrasting periods -> max. score = 10

Overall artistic design

Flight schedule design & proper combination with music choice -> max. score = 8

Compared to the "Technique" (max. score = 20) and "Artistic Quality" (max. score = 32), "Overall artistic design" only adds a maximum of 8 to the score.

Pilots may focus more on F3P-AM, because these competitions are flown several times per year. How often do they get to fly in an F6B competition?

Jürgen
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 02:40 AM
Jan Spatny
Czech republic
Joined Nov 2004
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Hi Guy!
I expect 4 to 6 pilots from CZE flying Aeromusicals. Many more flying pattern.

My point about judging was that not all of judges stick exactly with judged criteria. I have seen it many times in Czech republic: Good, I liked this one, I'll give him high score in all criteria. I didn't (for some reason) like the other one, so he gets lower score in all criteria. Second pilot gets penalized even though he had better precision and sync with music, not only in overall artistic design.

My respect goes to all judges that are as fair as they can be.

Jan
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by HonzaS View Post
...
My point about judging was that not all of judges stick exactly with judged criteria. I have seen it many times in Czech republic: Good, I liked this one, I'll give him high score in all criteria. I didn't (for some reason) like the other one, so he gets lower score in all criteria. Second pilot gets penalized even though he had better precision and sync with music, not only in overall artistic design.

My respect goes to all judges that are as fair as they can be.

Jan
Hi Jan,

have a look at the official list of FAI judges for F6B:

http://www.fai.org/ciam-about-us/cia...delling-judges

3 judges from Belgium, 3 from France, 3 from San Marino, 3 from Spain, 2 from Canada, 1 from USA and 1 from Norway.

You may want to ask yourself, where those judges have earned their qualification, or how often they have actually done judging at an F6B competition.

Having fair judges is absolutely crucial for any competition. For a good flight, you should get higher scores than for a bad flight. If this is not the case, it becomes very frustrating for the competitor.

Jürgen
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 12:04 PM
Jan Spatny
Czech republic
Joined Nov 2004
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Here is the list of pilots registered for Prague Qualification:

Name, license, categories :
Jiří Šotola, CZE 302-32, F3P F6B RCHP AR
Jan Špatný, CZE 229-20, F3P F6B RCHP AR
Marek Plichta, CZE 335-337, F3P F6B RCHP AR
Vladislav Plichta, CZE 335-336, RCEAa
Jakub Nečesánek, CZE 274-15, F6B RCEAb RCHP AR
Jan Votava jun, CZE 292-45, F3P F6B RCHP AR
Tomáš Ciniburk, CZE 156-27, RCHP, AR
Jan Šefrna, CZE 323-27, RCEAb
Václav Panocha, CZE 323-6, RCEAb AR

please register ONLY on email F3P@seznam.cz, including your FAI license number.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 01:56 PM
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Praha
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RC Modely Slow Flyer 2012

RC Modely Slow Flyer 2012

February 11th 2012 in the Zelený pruh 1294/50 Prague 4. Access to hall will be open at 8:00.

Entry fee:

F3P, F6B, RCEA – 300 Kč

RCHP, Model Air Race – 100 Kč


Registration:
On e-mail f3p@seznam.cz. Registrations will be closed on Feruary 8th 2012. Maximum number of pilots for RCEA is 25 and 20 for F3P,F6B.

Online list of pilots


more detail: http://www.rcmania.cz/sf.htm (on fai.org is wrong link)
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TomasC View Post
RC Modely Slow Flyer 2012

February 11th 2012 in the Zelený pruh 1294/50 Prague 4. Access to hall will be open at 8:00.

Entry fee:

F3P, F6B, RCEA – 300 Kč

RCHP, Model Air Race – 100 Kč


Registration:
On e-mail f3p@seznam.cz. Registrations will be closed on Feruary 8th 2012. Maximum number of pilots for RCEA is 25 and 20 for F3P,F6B.

Online list of pilots


more detail: http://www.rcmania.cz/sf.htm (on fai.org is wrong link)
Me and my friend Ricardas thinking about joining competition. Tomas what is RCEA?
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 04:17 PM
Jan Spatny
Czech republic
Joined Nov 2004
205 Posts
Hi Donatas, RCEA is national pattern sequence, two actually.

Pilot can choose between harder and easier one, of course the easier has much lower K factors (I guess 8 points in total). Here are example videos:

Halová sestava RCEA - A (2 min 22 sec)

Halová sestava RCEA -B (2 min 50 sec)


You can cross the center line between figures once, but i didn't do that on the vids, we had to make videos as short as possible.

Jan
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Old May 01, 2012, 03:29 AM
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I was wondering is there any news ore updates on WArtG ?
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Old May 01, 2012, 03:44 AM
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I was wondering is there any news ore updates on WArtG ?
Yes. Already selected competitors will be provided with pertinent updates. A final official announcement is expected to be made on May 23 during the SportAccord Convention in Quebec, Canada.
AMA President Bob Brown has been given all information for the USA pilots. He told me that AMA would conduct a selection contest to pick up the best ones.

FAI guy
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