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Old Sep 28, 2012, 01:30 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
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maybe both - the servo will respond to changing pulse widths, with most using 1520us at neutral, and about 500us either side of that. The pulse width sent to the servos will depend on the RX, but maybe the gyro can modify the signal to the tail servo. Perhaps someone a bit more knowledgeable in digital electronics will chip in...

Update:

OK, I did a test using the CX program box, which also functions as a servo tester, and a retired Corona 929MG servo.

First of all, I set both CX3x1000 tail limits to 100. Full rudder deflection then resulted in the servo arm moving maybe 40 degrees either side of centre. On the servo tester, it seemed to correspond to 1130us to 1910us - though I was only judging this by eye for the servo arm position.

Setting the controller tail limits to the maximum of 125 resulted in servo arm movement of a little over 45 degrees either side of centre, and on the servo tester, I could replicate that by going from 1020us to 2020us.

Therefore it seems that tail limits set to 125 will result in the maximum normal amount of servo throw.

One interesting result of these tests is that, for my radio at least, which is a JR9XII with a 2.4G FrSky module and RX, adjusting servo trim in the controller moved the servo neutral but had no effect on the servo end positions. That means that using large trim values in the controller will inevitably result in differential servo throw, something to be wary of in the cyclic servos.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Thanks 2Doggs! I also tried 125% and it improved but still there's a about 3mm space in both ends of the tail slider. With the G401B using this same servo I had to limit the throw by a lot to avoid binding. Should I just reset my 3X1000?
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 05:31 AM
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First off let me thank John_NZ for his excelent GUI software for these FBL units,Simion for his excellent How to Videos and the many who have contributed to this thread..

I very recently purchased and installed a Tarot ZYX-S in my 4 year old Blade 400. Not perfectly tweaked yet but getting better and better.

I just purchased a Blade 450 which was a 400 ,then it was a 450 3D and recently converted to FBL using a Copter X FBL and it came with the programming box. I have downloaded the programming box instructions and can connect and move around in the Menus but have not figured out saves,loads, how to save different configurations if that is possible,etc. Seems Laptop is easier so will use John's software for now.


OK real question........ If computer software is connected and you do not choose a file or a Beginner, Soft 3D etc. but merely change a value does the value get changed in the FBL Gyro .

Example connect, go to advanced ,change collective to tail Torque compensation say from 10 to 8 and then just exit , no save file etc. is the change saved in the Gyro?

I would like to make small changes without having to Load a saved file , make the change and then Save the File. I realize that I can figure this out trial and error / testing but perhaps someone can save me the time and effort.


Anyone know a good video or even step by step text on using the Copter X programmer ?

Charles
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post


OK real question........ If computer software is connected and you do not choose a file or a Beginner, Soft 3D etc. but merely change a value does the value get changed in the FBL Gyro .

Example connect, go to advanced ,change collective to tail Torque compensation say from 10 to 8 and then just exit , no save file etc. is the change saved in the Gyro?

I would like to make small changes without having to Load a saved file , make the change and then Save the File. I realize that I can figure this out trial and error / testing but perhaps someone can save me the time and effort.

Charles
Hi,

Yes, if you have connected to the gyro (lights are green on the software), then every change you make in the configuration is sent to the gyro immediately. In the status bar, there is an indication to tell you if there are any settings left to send to the gyro, but typically it will be at zero unless something goes wrong.

So, yep, you can connect to the gyro and make changes without having to load a configuration file. Then after you have made changes, you can save the configuration if you want to.

Hope that helps to explain it.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 07:10 AM
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Thanks John as that will enable making minor changes very simple and avoid a major mistake such as loading the wrong Config. File or Saving a changed one over the wrong one. I w prefer to just do minor tuning at the field and then Load and Save Configs. at home where I am not distracted.

Charles
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 11:04 AM
just gotta mess with it!
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and just to confirm, you can't save configurations with the program box - you can only do that with the software. I always carry the program box to the field, but do all my adjustments with the software.

One way that the software is a lot more convenient than the program box is when you need to trim the swash. With the program box, you have to adjust all three servos separately, whereas with one click in the software you can tilt the swash left or right, forward or back.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
and just to confirm, you can't save configurations with the program box - you can only do that with the software. I always carry the program box to the field, but do all my adjustments with the software.

One way that the software is a lot more convenient than the program box is when you need to trim the swash. With the program box, you have to adjust all three servos separately, whereas with one click in the software you can tilt the swash left or right, forward or back.
Talking about the swash trim in the software, I am using the original Tarot Software V3.0 and one thing I noticed is that when I try to make Swash trimming it will clear all the servo trims I previously had made. Is this normal and is John_NZ's sotware different?

Thanks,
Rico.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 11:24 AM
just gotta mess with it!
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I have a CX3x1000, and I settled on John_NZ's software. It's never cleared my servo trim settings in that way. Are you setting up two "conditions"?
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I have a CX3x1000, and I settled on John_NZ's software. It's never cleared my servo trim settings in that way. Are you setting up two "conditions"?
I'm setting up just 1 condition.

When in the Setup process, I try to level my swash by first performing servo trims to ensure the servo horns/control arms are 90-deg (those that can't be done mechanically). Then, at one point I tried to click on the Swash trim and it actually cleared all my previous servo trims back to zeros.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 11:39 AM
just gotta mess with it!
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Do try to select servo arms that will minimise the amount of servo trim you have to use. I've found that adjusting servo trim does not affect the servo end points - so using large amounts of trim will result in differential servo throw.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 03:15 PM
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and just to confirm, you can't save configurations with the program box - you can only do that with the software. I always carry the program box to the field, but do all my adjustments with the software.
Just received CX-PB001 yesterday so no expert but according to User's Manual in Expert Menu you can

Model Save -- Save parameters in CX-PB001 as a model

Model rename ---Rename a model that you save in CX-PB001

Fact is from what I can see the programmers does everything the computer software does. I do agree that the computer GUI is easier to use but sometime you do not need a sledge hammer to drive a thumb tack.

Charles
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 03:30 PM
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Here is a brain teaser for you.

CS 3S 1000 FBL
CX-PB001 programmer

John's PC software.

To center Elev. servo requires Sub Trim of 20 in DX7 transmitter.
PC softtware shows 14 versus 20.

Used a know accurate servo tester to verify servo is indeed centering correctly which it does and has full range plus overtravel .

If I use Trans. Subtrim and set computer screen to 0 as per instructions then I have a way out off center servo with very limited movement.

Gave up and just used Trans. Sub Trim of 20 . Went to field this morning and it flys great. May not be correct way to set it up but works for me. FFF solid and smooth, as are satationary flips. FFF loops and rolls and very smooth ,piros are perfectly level.

For clarification I was using the Tarot XYZ Software (John's) that I had installed for use with the Tarot XYZ-S unit.

Perhaps there is a software error between these these two different units.
Charles
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 04:21 PM
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TX vs Controller trim

I don't think that the difference of 14 points of subtrim in your TX to 20 in the FBL controller to get the arm centred means there is any sort of error. It merely means the sub trim in the controller is set slightly finer.

I am beginning to wonder exactly how the FBL controller (CX in my case) is handling trim. If I hook up my servos directly to my RX, any change in TX sub trim is reflected in the end positions of the servo arms, thus using TX sub trim won't result in differential throws. The only thing to watch out for is not exceeding the angular range of the servo - for example on a CCPM cyclic servo, where combined collective and cyclic stick inputs can drive the servo close to the end stops. Therefore as a general rule, it's sensible to limit sub trim to as small a value as possible, by playing around with different servo arms, the ideal ones being those five-lobed ones, where you can find the arm that works best and cut off the other four.

With the CX, it seems like maybe trim values only affect servo neutral, but I need to do more tests to check that. Of course you have to allow for the fact that what happens in the air may differ from what you see on the bench.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 06:28 PM
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I don't think that the difference of 14 points of subtrim in your TX to 20 in the FBL controller to get the arm centred means there is any sort of error. It merely means the sub trim in the controller is set slightly finer.
Sorry it seems you mis understood.

Servo ceters correctly on a known accurate servo tester and also when connected to a receiver and my DX7 is set to zero trim and zero subtrim.

Next using servo connected to copter X I have to use Sub Trim of 20 in my transmitter which the computer software Monitor screens shows as being 14 .

If I do as Simon's setup video suggest and set Zero in the Monitor screen them my Elevator servo is way off center , I have a ton of forward and no back and it takes a lot of Transmitter trim to level the swash.

I am still trying to determine if Jack's computer software for the Tarot works correctly with the Copter X or if that is what is causing this issue. Strange part is that the other two cyclic servos center fine ,Zero Trans Trim. sub trim and in the software Monitor screen.

Charles
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 10:54 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Sorry it seems you mis understood.
I hope this doesn't come across as too pedantic, but I just want to be sure I'm not talking at cross purposes with you.

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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Servo centers correctly on a known accurate servo tester and also when connected to a receiver and my DX7 is set to zero trim and zero subtrim.
OK, so the servo arm is exactly square to the case at 1520us on the tester, and you either got lucky with that arm, or you spent some time finding an arm that worked that way. Your TX neutral agrees with the servo tester neutral.

Is that also the case for the other channels - i.e. aileron and pitch?

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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Next using servo connected to copter X I have to use Sub Trim of 20 in my transmitter which the computer software Monitor screens shows as being 14 .
So you have to use TX sub trim of 20 to get the arm to neutral, which the monitor sees as 14.

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If I do as Simon's setup video suggest and set Zero in the Monitor screen them my Elevator servo is way off center , I have a ton of forward and no back and it takes a lot of Transmitter trim to level the swash.
But you should use servo trim in the FBL controller.

If you use TX trim, the controller will see the trim as the new neutral each time you power it up in that same flight mode and you'll have to keep adding trim.

If you use servo trim in the FBL controller, are you getting differential servo throw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
I am still trying to determine if Jack's computer software for the Tarot works correctly with the Copter X or if that is what is causing this issue. Strange part is that the other two cyclic servos center fine ,Zero Trans Trim. sub trim and in the software Monitor screen.

Charles
Maybe there's just better agreement between the TX and the FBL controller for the other two controls - i.e. pitch and aileron.

You could see if it related to servo differences by swapping cyclic servos around.

Having used earlier versions of John_NZ's software without any problems, I'm now having some odd issues which I believe are caused by the condition switching options. I am still using the original CX firmware in my 3x1000, and I use my gear switch to switch from AVCS to rate mode.

In the 1.16 software, however, I can select condition switching for the gear switch in the advanced menu. I decided to try it - but having done so, it seems like the feature has "toggled" on, with some odd effects. I've had to go thru my setup completely, reversing servos, gyro sense, piro comp and collective range. This unexpected change in parameters sounds reminiscient of problems users have previously reported.
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