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Old May 01, 2012, 12:36 AM
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Question
Enclosed steam plants and air circulation

Any experience out there with getting enough air to boiler room/area in an enclosed steam plant installation? Would a couple of 40mm diameter 12V fans take care of the problem? All windows and doors are glazed but a few could be opened up to admit and vent air.

Mike
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Old May 01, 2012, 10:17 AM
Just call me "Mo"
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NE PDX OR
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I am installing almost as we speak a 10v CPU fan in the superstructure of my paddle tug.

It runs a nice and quiet pace and just keeps the air exchanging so no build up of heat and or any stray gas fumes that occur. As soon as I get the frame work done I will post a picture.

Luckily I have about 20 sq inches of open windows and doors to draw from and some grated areas over the boiler aft of the fan to exhaust out of.. It and the navigation lights run for 6 hours on a 4 AA cell pack at a speed of about 200-300 rpm.
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Old May 01, 2012, 10:25 AM
Just call me "Mo"
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So the fan will be attached to an angled frame just inside the visible front open door on the S.S.

Angled at down at 45 degree s towards the stern. In the second picture you can see the rear grating. There rear most deck cover is also removable and has rear vent holes to make sure that no air completely trapped aft.

I have louvered door inserts for the two door openings .
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Old May 01, 2012, 11:19 AM
P31
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United States, WA, Spanaway
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Grate looking boat Mo, Mine is till half done in the box, I like the hot tub. Your shop looks just like mine clean and neat
Gary
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Old May 01, 2012, 03:54 PM
Just call me "Mo"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela31 View Post
Your shop looks just like mine clean and neat
Gary
Man o Man you need glasses Gary--Ha HA HA

That is as clean as it ever gets, by a wide margin...I would make a methodical craftsman boat builder crazy with my loose and dirty shop ways
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Old May 01, 2012, 10:00 PM
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South Texas
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Hummmm I was hoping to see what one looks like by the slap it together man,,,,,
Very nice!
Clutter looks the same as my work areas

Hookpilot most of the posts I have read on enclosed steam plants are using small computer fans to provide airflow to aid in air exchange but you must have openings for venting. The fans draw very little current.
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Old May 01, 2012, 10:08 PM
P31
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I'll bet he knows where everything is, and in its place. What do think about the hot tub Reg
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Old May 01, 2012, 10:45 PM
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Hey Gary, You mean the square thing in the stern?

I always have clutter around what I am working on. I allways have to rake off a lot of stuff to take any pictures.
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Old May 01, 2012, 11:59 PM
Just call me "Mo"
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NE PDX OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela31 View Post
I'll bet he knows where everything is, and in its place. What do think about the hot tub Reg

Yep- Gary was picking on my "Rope cradle" ... He thinks it looks like a hot tub..it is in the plans and photos of the actual tug...me the copy cat...;>)

I do need to get the fan frame work done...as well as get my steam plant "steam tight"...job and family and spring grass growing at lightning speed are all keeping me out of the shop...

Once again my shop organization and neatness could really improve...but I really need to get this boat "steaming" soon

Sorry to get off topic jabbering so much ...back to you Hookpilot
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Old May 02, 2012, 03:41 AM
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A point to ponder Mogogear, when drawing air through the CPU fan to cool the boats innards, what sort of temperature is passing through it? In its intended use, the fan is drawing dry hot air from a heat sink which is also aiding cooling so it may be an idea to think of blowing cool air through the fan to the inside of the boat and making sure their are plenty of exits. Heat and damp are ideal for drying out sintered metal bearings.

Regards Ian.
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Old May 02, 2012, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hookpilot View Post
Any experience out there with getting enough air to boiler room/area in an enclosed steam plant installation? Would a couple of 40mm diameter 12V fans take care of the problem? All windows and doors are glazed but a few could be opened up to admit and vent air.

Mike
Mike, Some info for your consideration, My tug CERVIA which is 40 years old with the last 15 years being steam powered.
At 1/32" scale it's 42" long x 35 lbs all up weight, powered by a 4.75" dia Scotch return flue boiler and fired by L.P.G. using a plumbers type blow lamp.
I have never had any trouble with combustion and all that I have for air intake is 8- port holes, 5/16" dia on the port and starboard side with 1- open door 1.825" x .75" on the starboard side and 3 - cowal ventilators which are molded around 1/2" copper pipe going into the main superstructure.
By a quick calculation there is approx 2.5 square inches of openings to let in air.

I never have had a problem so maybe a fan isn't needed if you leave windows and doors open and most of my friends who run steamers never consider fans so I don't have any experience with fans, hope this helps.

George.
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Old May 02, 2012, 03:35 PM
P31
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Mo I got my water hook up done, just need to fit the filler portion. I took your idea and used a air plane gas tank 32oz I dont think I;ll run out of water.
Gary
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Old May 02, 2012, 06:53 PM
Just call me "Mo"
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NE PDX OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
A point to ponder Mogogear, when drawing air through the CPU fan to cool the boats innards, what sort of temperature is passing through it? In its intended use, the fan is drawing dry hot air from a heat sink which is also aiding cooling so it may be an idea to think of blowing cool air through the fan to the inside of the boat and making sure their are plenty of exits. Heat and damp are ideal for drying out sintered metal bearings.

Regards Ian.
If I wrote otherwise my mistake--My fan will draw outside air IN through the main window and door galleries from outside and blow that cooler air in over the boiler area below and aft- creating positive pressure inside the hull.

So all is as I think you are recommending.



Once again not a high speed blower -air exchange and cooling are the goals. The boat has been run on steam prior to my ownership and was not fan ventilated to my knowledge. My superstructure is wood and metal and I have it sheathed underneath with light aluminium sheet .

So hopefully I will be improving the engine room temps!

P.S. Hookpilot My little fan is 70mm square

Nice Tug George!
!

Nice tank Gary!
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Old May 02, 2012, 07:54 PM
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Bozeman, Montana, United States
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John's Steam Tramp has an efficient ceramic burner, the Midwest single cylinder oscillator motor, and no ventilation other than the smokestack. The efficient burner means that there is little waste heat to vent through the smokestack; you can hold your hand over the smokestack of both the Tramp and the AJ.Goddard without getting burned (both ceramic burners are homemade, btw). The Goddard's boiler is on deck, so needs no cooling to protect superstructure. The Tramps engineroom/boiler room is encased by ceramic blanket and aluminum flashing, which you can see in the build photos.

Hookpilot your setup will be much more elaborate, and generate much more heat, of course. I just mention the Tramp and Goddard so you can get ideas on burners that don't shed much waste heat, and some insulation tips. Ceramic blanket insulation, as used by the 2 steamers, would help protect the superstructure sides and ceiling from heat, if you have the room to install it. The fan advice you've received, along with opening some windows and doors and adding some insulation, will, I think, provide enough cooling.

You might consider a bench test of the steam/boiler system w/o the superstructure. Hold some scrap plastic/wood/metal bits near the hot areas and see if they are going to be damaged, before you set the superstructure with it's great details, over the boiler room. If you find heat problems, a "tea cozy" made of ceramic blanket to cover the engines and boiler may help.

Tramp:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=717385
Goddard (ceramic insulation report#21)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=ceram&page=2
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Old May 03, 2012, 01:01 AM
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Thanks for Input on Ventilating engine room

My main cabin has a volume of over 2000 cubic inches. The boiler will probably be a Macssteam 3.5" model. It will be easy to remove some of the glazing on the 32 windows and 4 doors in this area. All the decks are light ply, so I'm not worried about heat buildup over the boiler. I'll insulate the boiler and the walls and overhead area of the boiler. A simple CPU cooling fan would probably be an easy add-on and cheap insurance to keep things cool and remove any butane/propane gas buildup. I'll be building a simple box structure with the same dimensions and openings to test over the boiler in steam and measure cabin temperatures and ensure proper airflow to keep the boiler lit. I can then adjust things to take care of heat buildup. Ambient temps here in Western Washington will be moderate so I'm not too worried about that. My other concern is steam's safety record using butane type fuels. From what I've gathered, fires are rare events if piping, etc., is built tight. Any experience out there with these issues???

Mike
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