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Old Nov 09, 2012, 09:43 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Flaperons or Spoilerons?

Am building a glider (ASW28) which won't have separate flaps, & would like some advice on setting up. Basically, flaperons or spoilerons - which would be best? I know what each is, & does, but haven't used either per se in flying before now - just flaps. As far as reflex & thermal trimming, I'll have differential ails & Tx capability so, no questions there.

Don't know enough about the finer points to see beyond basic use for landings, shortening approach etc. I've read in other topics various comments about each; here & there one would be better for this or that, others say other'n is best. Some have mentioned various drawbacks & 'dangers' of each, but in all the reading available I can't remember enough specific details & which they applied to, so decided to ask.

SO....for an intermediate flier with no practical experience with either, what would you recommend? Would love to see a list of Pros & Cons for each, to draw upon for the ol' memory banks here. And mucho thanks in advance!
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 10:40 AM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
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SH - my personal decision is to use spoilerons on all my planes vs. flapperons EXCEPT for the DLG. I have planes that pitch up with spoilerons and others that pitch down - and vice versus for flaperons. Start small and well above ground level

Flaps - add drag and slow the plane down nicely. If located toward the wing tips, can cause a stall and wing drop (NOTE - no such thing as a "tip stall" despite being a common misnomer...) The further the flap is toward the outboard tip, the greater the yaw induced by the drag. Use you imagination to see how a stall with a large drag force will cause the plane to pivot around the "low wing". The DLG has a different aileron geometry than my other gliders and a very low wing loading.

Spoilerons - lessen the lift made by the wing, until thrown to extreme angles where they begin to add drag also. DLG uses very small move spoilerons to decrease lift and drag on launch and for getting across large areas of sink quickly.

Flaps can slow the plane down well below the fall-from-the-sky speed - which if you are near that speed and decide to abort the landing... kill flaps and you've lost the model too.

Spolierons will acutally speed the plane up assuming the plane stays at the same AoA. I find spoilerons work well to get a plane to sink through ground effect. Flaps tend to make them "float" a little more - until induced drag overcomes the added lift. In the event of an aborted landing, when you kill the spoilerons - you instantly have full lift generated by the wings again - much better place to be than using the flapperons and having to abort...

There are many opinons - you will see many pros and cons. FWIW - after seeing how well the DLG handles with flaps, all of my future planes will have those as well. For my planes that only have ailerons to work with, those will stay as spoilerons.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JimNM View Post
FWIW - after seeing how well the DLG handles with flaps, all of my future planes will have those as well. For my planes that only have ailerons to work with, those will stay as spoilerons.
Totally agree, full span ailerons/flaps. Ailerons only/spoilerons.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 01:27 PM
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On my slopers I use spoilerons with as much throw as i can get out of the setup- so 60 degrees seems to work well.

I always use elevator compensation, but set it up so the plane has a solid sink rate. In my experience it's less workload to have to flair by pulling up rather than push to go down though the rotor.

I use a switch. I like to be able apply them on my crosswind leg, turn them off to turn to final, and then spoilerons on all the way to the ground. I prefer a switch, as it makes it easier to bang them on and off in rough air, or a go-around, but I'm probably in the minority here.

If anyone tells you spoilerons aren't slowing their plane down they're not using enough throw. You should see the fuse "squat" visibly as you apply them. Done right they can be quite effective.

For your ASW 28. make sure to use aileron horns that are long enough to give you tons of throw- you can always dial back the aileron throw while having tons of spoileron.

On your maiden, have the spoileron program up on the screen of your radio, and the elevator compensation program ready. Get as high as you can, and hit your switch/throttle stick/slider. If the plane pitches down, correct with up compensation- you get the idea.

Which kit didd you buy?
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 05:51 PM
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Some time back on another plane I was mentioning using one or the other (F or S) and was told I shouldn't as that had a tendency to induce (the so-called) "tip stall" when they had slowed the plane & at low altitude as in landing, not easy to recover from & hence, high-damaging cartwheels. Seems like he was saying use spoilerons over the flaperons I was proposing, but I swear my ol' memory just isn't clear now on which it was.

I much appreciate the things said hereto, & very eager to hear other input!

@slopemeno - I got the FMS 2.3-meter.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 07:16 PM
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Gents, I believe I've found the answer(s) I need. Good ol' RCGroups to the rescue! *LOL*

After that last post something caught my eye -- the 'Similar Threads' feature, which showed this topic has been discussed several times, & at length. Might take me the next couple of days to read them all! And wow, turns out it can be a quite sensitive issue, too!

There's 'coverage' of everything from jets & deltas thru sailplanes, and the different aspects as applicable to each. From a quick scan thru of one I've done, it looks like spoilerons should be my weapon of choice, but it will be educational to get up to good altitude & get the experience of both. Good advice, I'd say.

I'm still interested in hearing whatever anyone has to say on the subject, so by all means continue the discussion if you wish, but as said I believe I have a good answer.
And again, thanks!

~~~~~
Notes to self:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1635477
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84224
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26256
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66581
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 08:28 PM
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 12:01 AM
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United States, CO, Colorado Springs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dephela View Post
Totally agree, full span ailerons/flaps. Ailerons only/spoilerons.
+1

The danger in flaperons comes from actuating only the tips.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 12:42 AM
MrE
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Originally Posted by jimnm View Post
sh - my personal decision is to use spoilerons on all my planes vs. Flapperons except for the dlg. I have planes that pitch up with spoilerons and others that pitch down - and vice versus for flaperons. Start small and well above ground level

flaps - add drag and slow the plane down nicely. If located toward the wing tips, can cause a stall and wing drop (note - no such thing as a "tip stall" despite being a common misnomer...) the further the flap is toward the outboard tip, the greater the yaw induced by the drag. Use you imagination to see how a stall with a large drag force will cause the plane to pivot around the "low wing". The dlg has a different aileron geometry than my other gliders and a very low wing loading.

Spoilerons - lessen the lift made by the wing, until thrown to extreme angles where they begin to add drag also. Dlg uses very small move spoilerons to decrease lift and drag on launch and for getting across large areas of sink quickly.

Flaps can slow the plane down well below the fall-from-the-sky speed - which if you are near that speed and decide to abort the landing... Kill flaps and you've lost the model too.

Spolierons will acutally speed the plane up assuming the plane stays at the same aoa. I find spoilerons work well to get a plane to sink through ground effect. Flaps tend to make them "float" a little more - until induced drag overcomes the added lift. In the event of an aborted landing, when you kill the spoilerons - you instantly have full lift generated by the wings again - much better place to be than using the flapperons and having to abort...

There are many opinons - you will see many pros and cons. Fwiw - after seeing how well the dlg handles with flaps, all of my future planes will have those as well. For my planes that only have ailerons to work with, those will stay as spoilerons.
+1
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Danmark, Nordjylland, Sæby
Joined May 2010
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Spoileron

Spoileron landings with my Hobbyking Speedy after towing by a Multiplex Funcup .
I have the spoilerons on a switch, (Flight mode)
and ofcause with elevator compensation
so i can use them without any change in the flight path, (when im flying at the normal approach speed)

Spoileron landings. (1 min 22 sec)


Spoilerons spoil the glide ratio, and if you are flying at the normal landing speed they are realy good,
But if you pushing the elevator stick, the glider will just accelerate and go fast, and you dont feel that they are working at all.
Thats where flaps are realy good.

So for spoileron, keep a normal landing speed.

Regards
S
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