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Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM
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Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
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More endpoint musings... (Continued from here.)

I recently had an occassion to setup an Airtronics SD-10G and found the same completely wrong usage of the term "End Point". Airtronics properly uses the same "Limit" term as Futaba to refer to the true endpoint but they use the incorrect term "EPA" to refer to the gain. Here is an interesting quote from the Airtronics manual warning that end points are neither ends nor points:
Quote:
IMPORTANT End Point Adjustment is not the same as Limits and should not be used in the same manner as Limits. Whereas Limits will Limit the maximum servo travel in either direction, End Point Adjustment does not. End Point Adjustment is designed to balance the control throw on both sides of servo travel and can be overridden by other settings, such as Dual Rate.
So then I realized why modern radios incorrectly use this term: End point adjustment is what we really need but there was no easy way to do that with the analog electronics of yesteryear. However, it's easy to throw a cheap potentiometer in there and simply adjust the gain for a similar effect. So apparently some marketing jackass wanted to dupe people into thinking his new radio had adjustable endpoints when really all it had was a lousy gain adjustment screw, and the rest is history. So now, like helicopters with ailerons and female plugs with male contacts, hobbyists are stuck with these confusing and incorrect terms.

Anyway, kudos to Futaba for ditching "EPA" and using proper terminology: "Limit Point" and "Travel Rate". And kudos to Futaba for allowing "Travel" and "Dual Rates" to multiply together with no limit other than the "Limit Point", which can always be reached. Airtronics does the exact same multiplication thing and you can crank up the numbers just as much but they have some infuriating hidden limit in there that still prevents the servo from being driven all the way to the "Limit" in certain cases when trim or mixes are involved.

Bottom line: When setting up travels, crank up the inner numbers, then set the true endpoint with the outer numbers, then reduce the inner numbers such that there is no deadband. Just that simple, truly permanent endpoints. And if you max out "travel" at 140 and still can't reach the limit you want, dual rates over 100% will get you there. Mixing or not.
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Old Yesterday, 08:19 PM
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Are_See_4_Me's Avatar
Joined Jan 2014
198 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldhflyguy View Post
Earlier this year I lost a high performance glider that more or less disapeared out of sight and could not be found after a considerable search.

I plan to buy a Futaba 14SG and am considering purchasing an SBS-01G GPS Sensor.
I'm wondering if a Futaba SBS-01G GPS Sensor would be helpful in finding lost gliders after they have landed and are possibly out of radio range.

Through some online searching I have found that the SBS-01G GPS Sensor can give me distance, speed, and altitude. I haven't found anything specific about direction and whether or not these itiems remain on the display after the aircraft is down somewhere, especially if it is out of range.

If you have had experience with the sensor, please let me know how it would be useful for helping to locate downed RC planes.

Thanks for your help.

I have the SBS-01G GPS sensor mounted on my F450 quad. It comes useful for distance and altitude information that is displayed on the 14SG.

The sensor does not indicate direction (azimuth) of the aircraft. It does however display latitude and longitude from the DISTANCE information screen. It is nested within the 3rd screen of this display that you will find the the latitude and longitude coordinates of the GPS sensor.

Alternatively, if you have telemetry logging enabled the latitude and longitude is written at intervals specified by the end user. This information from the telemetry log file along with a hand held GPS could be beneficial in locating a downed craft.

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Old Yesterday, 08:42 PM
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United States, MO, Fenton
Joined Jan 2012
1,732 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespa View Post
More endpoint musings... (Continued from here.)

I recently had an occassion to setup an Airtronics SD-10G and found the same completely wrong usage of the term "End Point". Airtronics properly uses the same "Limit" term as Futaba to refer to the true endpoint but they use the incorrect term "EPA" to refer to the gain. Here is an interesting quote from the Airtronics manual warning that end points are neither ends nor points:

So then I realized why modern radios incorrectly use this term: End point adjustment is what we really need but there was no easy way to do that with the analog electronics of yesteryear. However, it's easy to throw a cheap potentiometer in there and simply adjust the gain for a similar effect. So apparently some marketing jackass wanted to dupe people into thinking his new radio had adjustable endpoints when really all it had was a lousy gain adjustment screw, and the rest is history. So now, like helicopters with ailerons and female plugs with male contacts, hobbyists are stuck with these confusing and incorrect terms.

Anyway, kudos to Futaba for ditching "EPA" and using proper terminology: "Limit Point" and "Travel Rate". And kudos to Futaba for allowing "Travel" and "Dual Rates" to multiply together with no limit other than the "Limit Point", which can always be reached. Airtronics does the exact same multiplication thing and you can crank up the numbers just as much but they have some infuriating hidden limit in there that still prevents the servo from being driven all the way to the "Limit" in certain cases when trim or mixes are involved.

Bottom line: When setting up travels, crank up the inner numbers, then set the true endpoint with the outer numbers, then reduce the inner numbers such that there is no deadband. Just that simple, truly permanent endpoints. And if you max out "travel" at 140 and still can't reach the limit you want, dual rates over 100% will get you there. Mixing or not.
Thanks for that. Helped clarify things quite a bit.
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM
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Joined Mar 2004
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ldh, as of FW4.0 the last known gps coordinate remains visible in some deep menu somewhere even after link is lost (early firmwares erase the coordinate when link is lost). It's in a screwy non-standard minutes/seconds format that isn't easy to type into a phone so you need to make sure your phone can either handle or convert the format and that you know how to type it in (I think you have to type a space for it to work). You can also configure the 14SG to always log everything to SD card but you need a PC and Excel to find the coordinates.
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Old Yesterday, 10:35 PM
FlyGuy
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Batavia, IL, USA
Joined Oct 2007
318 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Are_See_4_Me View Post
I have the SBS-01G GPS sensor mounted on my F450 quad. It comes useful for distance and altitude information that is displayed on the 14SG.

The sensor does not indicate direction (azimuth) of the aircraft. It does however display latitude and longitude from the DISTANCE information screen. It is nested within the 3rd screen of this display that you will find the the latitude and longitude coordinates of the GPS sensor.

Alternatively, if you have telemetry logging enabled the latitude and longitude is written at intervals specified by the end user. This information from the telemetry log file along with a hand held GPS could be beneficial in locating a downed craft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vespa View Post
ldh, as of FW4.0 the last known gps coordinate remains visible in some deep menu somewhere even after link is lost (early firmwares erase the coordinate when link is lost). It's in a screwy non-standard minutes/seconds format that isn't easy to type into a phone so you need to make sure your phone can either handle or convert the format and that you know how to type it in (I think you have to type a space for it to work). You can also configure the 14SG to always log everything to SD card but you need a PC and Excel to find the coordinates.
Thanks guys.
This is all very interesting; but, I think it's beyond my abilities.
I was hoping for something a little more simple.
I appreciate your efforts to help me.
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