John, as it stands, we have three days, including a practice day on Friday. The current format easily allows for what you want without adding more days. Also, there is more than just trophies to consider, LSF donated $250 to the schools science dept. this past summer plus there was a potapot rental. So, that is approximately $350 plus trophies/2 more days and the original three days give plenty of time to accomplish the said goals. I guess, to me, three days is enough to play XC and there are other events that folks want to play that start on Monday. Also, I cannot imagine that Dave would not be against allowing an e-ship to make a test run if they desire. But ask him!

Marc

Marc,

Certainly there are other expenses. The extra two days may have an additional fee to play at the site -- nothing is free these days. It's great that the LSF donated money to the Science department. we could do something similar or completely different. The idea of using Monday and Tuesday is that not everyone wants to go fly at the NOS/RES events but have to wait them out to get to other events later in the week. Looking at the entrants for the 2012 NATS there were 0 (i.e. None) pilots signed up for XC that ALSO participated in the NOS/RES events.

Friday is also a work day for those pilots who have "day-jobs". Yet another vacation day at that time of year is hard for some people. Hence the suggestion of overlapping with NOS/RES and letting each person decide for themselves what they want to do. I'm just offering options to an otherwise rigid set of events. There may also be pilots who don't want to participate in the formal XC NATS contest and just want to come out to get their LSF-III, IV, or V Goal and Return goals completed.

Let's face it, getting a good 10K course is difficult in most parts of the US and most pilots can fly any version of TD at their home fields at any time. Getting your witnesses lined up is also a challenge. This is a good place to get this done.

Take Care,
John
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John, 3 going to 5 days is not needed.

Marc

Marc,

Thanks for your perspective. Your vote has been received and if you don't want to attend, then don't. It is an option available to all.

From one point of view it is a 2-day contest with the availability of 3-practice days beforehand.

It's time to let others post their input.

Take Care,
John
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Its so nice to see a self-appointed new Nats manager determining the course of the future. Are you going to start attending the planning meetings, taking care of registration, rounding up helpers, organizing the site and logistics, doing the advertising, and the myriad of other tasks that people like Marc have been doing for more years than you likely have been playing RC? Just who do you think found the "new" XC course that you seem to take as your right to dictate how and when it is used?

Sorry, but your holier than thou attitude sucks. A little respect for the people that actually do make it happen is in order.

JT

JT,

It is easy to mistake what’s being said and to jump to conclusions. I’m not a self-appointed NATS manager, I’m offering to allow people the option to continue to work on some difficult tasks by donating my time, energy, money, advertising etc. Giving people a choice is what I’m doing rather than being dictated to. If people want to stay Monday and Tuesday and work on LSF XC tasks why are you and Marc so against that? It is their choice. Who are you to decide for me and others that we cannot fly LSF XC tasks on Monday and Tuesday if we choose to do so at that site or any of the other viable site? This has nothing to do with the NATS. The NATS will go on just as the planners and helpers have set up.

Marc feels it is not needed and I'm offering the option, not dictating anything.

Personally, I’d rather have options.

If you like, PM me your phone number and I'll call you and we can discuss this further.

Take Care,
John
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Not necessary. You've made your point and are welcome to proceed as you please, I certainly can't stop you. Just please don't screw up what others have worked so hard to provide. Be sure you contact the property owners in advance and ensure that they are amenable to you using the site beyond what LSF has arranged for use in the Nats program. Make sure any insurance/access/amenities or other concerns are independentlyl taken care of. And be sure to state clearly that you are doing this outside of the LSF/AMA Nats program and program management, which you are.

Regards,
JT

JT,

Let's go back to my first sentence of my proposal to put this back into perspective:

I'm going to toss this out there as a "what-if" just to see what people think about it.

This is a "what-if" scenario that was posted to try and float an idea. This is not a "We are going to do this regardless of anything" statement. So please don't assume that it is that statement. It is unfortunate that some have had this massively negative view of a "what-if" proposal as if I pissed in their corn flakes. I will say that I do have 5 PMs from LSF members in support of the proposal who are unwilling to get caught in the firefight here on RCG.

So far some people think it is not needed, some do, some believe the site location is great and others think that another site would be better.

So let's agree to disagree, and I withdraw the proposal and offer of taking on the responsibility to manage it.

Take Care,
John
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No intention of pissing on your cornflakes. We get lots of idea guys throwing up their pet agenda for discussion, most trying to get others to do the real work for them. Maybe you're one of these, maybe not. So I'll put it as direct as I can. Talk less, do more. If you think you have a great idea, run with it. But don't be a leech and expect that you can simply glom onto what has been hard won by others. It doesn't work that way.

JT

Originally Posted by Ne-Aero

JT,

Let's go back to my first sentence of my proposal to put this back into perspective:

I'm going to toss this out there as a "what-if" just to see what people think about it.

This is a "what-if" scenario that was posted to try and float an idea. This is not a "We are going to do this regardless of anything" statement. So please don't assume that it is that statement. It is unfortunate that some have had this massively negative view of a "what-if" proposal as if I pissed in their corn flakes. I will say that I do have 5 PMs from LSF members in support of the proposal who are unwilling to get caught in the firefight here on RCG.

So far some people think it is not needed, some do, some believe the site location is great and others think that another site would be better.

So let's agree to disagree, and I withdraw the proposal and offer of taking on the responsibility to manage it.

Take Care,
John
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JT,

It is clear that you are looking for a fight. I'm not interested in that. I offered to do something and back it up with work, time, and money for the benefit of others. You choose not to see that. You'd rather shoot down the idea. That's your choice.

My offer to discuss this still stands.

Take Care,
John
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PM replied to. Not looking for a fight, just respect for those that deserve it.

Guys,

If you haven't already, browse over to the ALES sub-forum for some interesting reading and cast your vote in the poll What is your interest in ALES XC competition?.

David

Hi Guys,
Time to chime in. As the runner up last year I agree with Skip. After the last XC race Skip and I shared thoughts about the last days. Mark did great work to set a new course. It all worked out great so why change it.
I am not for any gyros in the planes as for now, but I see the writing on the wall. Electronics are coming.
All GPS-up gyro stabled glider will kill the sport. So we may have to compromise……let’s say ONE gyro and ONE vario or two gyro no vario. Some years back the full scale guys had to figure out a way to have THERE sport not killed by electronics. PDA’s are now allowed and yes made the competitions better and faster. We RC xc pilots are in the same predicament as the full scaler’s. So let’s step forward and save our sport.
JT come fly with us and kick ASS in a good way…..

Peter Baumeler
with Team Solar Drones, University of Michigan

I can think of at least one plane that would make ALES cross country soaring pointless

That is of course if you allow for relights but then you would be limited by the amount of daylight. Thinking of it as just a different launch method is a good idea I think because some people don't like to use winches plus if you find yourself losing altitude quick in a bad location you can motor yourself to safety (which certainly was a possibility on the new course) . We would need to devise a way to determine motor run time, most likely a device similar to what the ALES guys use and simply say any relights after the initial launch earns a zero for the flight, that way if you fly too low because you were getting cocky and realize you're about to lose your plane you can trade a zero for its safe return.

I hope this years weather turns out to be as nice as last years and I can't wait to confuse the locals again with our large ships.

Originally Posted by Ne-Aero

Looking at the entrants for the 2012 NATS there were 0 (i.e. None) pilots signed up for XC that ALSO participated in the NOS/RES events.

That's because XC and NOS/RES were held on the same days. You could either enter XC or NOS/RES but not both.

You will also notice that there was not any crossover between F3K and 2 Meter. Also because those events were held on the same days.

Ryan