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Old Apr 05, 2016, 03:21 PM
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Super tigre .10 wind Idea's?

Well a member on her was kind enough to send me a super tigre .10 that needs rewound. I'm not sure on what kind of turn count to go for on it as it was already unwound when I received it. They are originally a 1250kv motor. They are a 12 tooth 14pole motor. It is a 28mm od stator that is 8.5mm height.

Just looking for ideas
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Old Apr 05, 2016, 04:28 PM
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So far I found that 7t of 21g will fit but 10 will be a problem and tight. 13t of 24g fits nicely but 15t for me would be on the border. 20t of 26g is fairly easy. I wound 4 consecutive teeth to find what I could do and get a idea of what is do able. havn't tried 23g yet
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Old Apr 05, 2016, 05:28 PM
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Hi jammied
Start with what you think it can do and what you want prop, kv, battery voltage

Look at my Pkz5616 motor rewind thread, I want a quiet propjet system so 6x6 with 2200kv on 3s 20500rpm is a screamer, not for me today.

look at some motor charts that spin a prop at the rpm you want on Innov8tive.com

The Stryker thrust is about 35oz or more, course I may be generalizing between f27c and F27q 400 and 480 motors

An 8x6 needs about 11000 rpm to give 35oz
.75 x V x kv = rpm

rpm/(V x .75) = kv

11000/(12 x. 75 ) = 1222kv

so I would try to wind 1250kv or so.

This really looks like fun, I worked hard and careful to get the kv I wanted, stripped and rewound to get a better copper fill.

Hey this is the 1st motor I did multistrand.
7T 3 strands 23awg for more copper. 1279kv. Didn't like how the 1st 7t 22awg did.

you need turn numbers, you could search till you find a rewind or pm a member who would know or ask tower tech dept or tiger how many turns or just put a quick easy dlrk delta wind on it not even trying for fill only to test for kv.

For sure look at the thread where Dr Kiwi tests an evaluates this motor because the mfrs over rated it, but it's still a good motor.

Starts with what you want and what this motor can do at what speed what size prop.

I'm interested to see what you do with this post pics tell what you want. We need turn/Kv numbers for this motor. ..this is going to be fun. I just got four d4023-850kv motors from hobbyking.com similar to your bell motor but larger and just $14 each.

Leonard
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Old Apr 05, 2016, 06:36 PM
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Thanks for the help.

I have been using these for 5 years in some different planes with 11x7 to 12x6 props and 3s 1800 40c packs and never burned one up. I actually thought about unwinding one of my other ones o see what it has for turns. I also came up with a few more that are good used motors Think I have 7 total lol. So unwinding one wouldn't hurt the stash. just to get a factory turn count.

I bent the bell on one last week called the tech support line to see about a replacement bell and they are going to send me a new motor under warranty!!! I told them it was 5 years old the reply was " our customer support is about the customer being happy"

I actually did read the DR Kiwi test on them after I had already been using the big props. A lot of good info there.

Yeah these bell motors are fun! Man knitting haha. I just was looking on HK for a larger bell motor also and thought of getting a d4023-850. I have a 53" profile plane that I would like to find a bell motor for.

Guess I will go unwind one. Would like to keep spinning the big props and wish they would spin a 13x4 effectively. But I have 4 dt750's to play with for that
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Old Apr 05, 2016, 06:54 PM
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A few pics. I think there was a factory defect on the one that needs rewound and burned up as part of the Flux ring is rubbing on the windings as if when being made it pushed part of the magnet for guides out of the Flux ring
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Old Apr 05, 2016, 10:28 PM
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So I un wound one and it had 10t on all teeth except two of them and one was 11t and the other was 12t.

It has 9 strands of what appears to be 32g it measures .2mm with the coating and the coating is thin I scraped some coating gently and it measures .17-.18 so to get the cross sectional area the same 23g would looks right, BUT I'm still a newby. So I might have misfigured? I have on hand 21g, 23g, 24g and 26g. Well Dang I think 22g would be a coffee break wind at 10t and 23 would be easy to get more turns and drop the kv down.

Still can't get my computer to download the turn calculator. it freaks out if I mention zip around it
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Old Apr 05, 2016, 10:32 PM
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Oh and ofcourse they all unwound easily with just a touch of heat except this one
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 05:32 AM
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Oh you want to spin 12x4 props. .. I hope you get some of those d4023-850s

Great big powerful cheap...1st time I ever ordered from hobbyking.com got 4 of these.

Been using apc 10x6 9x6e and 1/4" dowels n BBQ skewers to wind. ...this is a blast!

Maybe next thing to do is 3D, I read what Jack said about larger props with lower pitch.

I'm thinking of those hk motors setup for 3D, and I should build some simple 3d plane but figure what would be best wind n prop for this for long low power flights. ..never hovered before

Wye winds seem best for efficiency

Maybe for 3D d4023 should be low kv and use a large low pitch prop?

This may be the next thing I wind

Have you seen flitetest.com bushwacker 3D plane? Then look at videos of twisted hobbies turbo crack beaver. I'm thinking of a larger version for use with the D4023.

Already tested a motor, here's TC7 chart and wire chart. See my thread on new wind diagrams dlrk hpdlrk lrk, it has all the correct standard diagrams plus mine too, gotta add the 2 versions of ABC now.

You might look at a123 batteries too, they last. I'm making the switch now, making 4 packs and 6 packs, only real thing to figure out is programming esc for different low voltage cutoff either 2.4 or 2.5v per cell? A123batteries.com

Try downloading tc7 to your phone and use with WPS office + PDF.

Leonard
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 02:21 PM
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How does this sound for a 3D power system for a plane not exceeding 3.5 pounds and easy on the battery?

D4023 wound 12T for 975kv max rpm 8775 on 12v at 8500rpm 4.67# 74.7oz 2118g thrust

Using the iFlight iCF 12x4.5 prop

Mine, 12v is what I was considering 4 cells a123

Yours 11.1v, 11 turns half parallel dLRK wye for 1063kv top rpm 8850.


different chart 11.5T for 1000kv
.75 x 1000kv x 12v = 9000rpms

Jack? Jammied?
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 03:37 PM
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I would suspect that d4023wind would yank a 48" skywing edge around pretty good. How much does the d4023 weigh?
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 03:38 PM
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I am going 3 strands of 26g and 10t delta termination with one motor and 6t 21g wye termination with the other
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 05:06 PM
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107.7g stock, why don't you get 3 or 4 of these! Pancake stators like this are easy to rewind.

We should look again at the winds on the threads to check the numbers that come up on the turn calculator.

I've never used these props for 3D but thinking they might be good.
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 06:17 PM
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Finally 10t of 3 strands 26g! The original 9 strand 32g was .288 mm squared surface this should be close to .387 not sure how that will effect the efficiency but should help some
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 06:44 PM
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Yeah those d4023's look like a larger version of the dt750. I wound one of my dt750's to 16t of 21g The other will be jack's 20t of 23g half parallel. I'm still thinking of getting one of those d4023's.

I may go 4t of 21g on the other super tigre with wye termination. Then it should be good with a 13'' prop
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Old Apr 06, 2016, 07:14 PM
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"..How does this sound for a 3D power system for a plane not exceeding 3.5 pounds and easy on the battery?..."

If I look at my rules of thumb I see this as needed for a 3D plane:

For input power - 150-200+ watts per pound; Unlimited performance 3D and aerobatic model

For thrust to weight - 1.71 lb/3 lbs = 0.57 (or more)

If we use 175W per pound for input power for a 3 lb. 3D plane that would be 613W for input power...

And at 0.57 of the 3.5 lb AUW the thrust requirement works out to 2 lbs. or about 990 grams.
There is some discussion and testing results on the D4023 motor here:

hexTronic D4023-850 Bl Outrunner (new big-un) - www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1491875

That is a 107 gram motor, the HK version of that motor was tested by Dr Kiwi and I tested the TurBORIX branded version of it (they are both the same motor) and we posted the results to flybrushless.com:

HK D4023-850 - http://www.flybrushless.com/motor/view/645

TurBORIX 4023-850 - http://www.flybrushless.com/motor/view/599

In stock form we both got it up around 3W per gram with not problems, Dr Kiwi tested several APC props and up to 3S, I tested only one prop and on 4S voltages.

I have a good collection of the iCF carbon fiber props and have tested that 12 x 4.5 on several motors. We know of no RPM limit for that prop yet, the results of the testing on that prop (under two different names but the same prop) were posted to flyrushless.com can be seen here:

iFlight CF 12x4.5 - www.flybrushless.com/prop/view/357
iFlight-RC iCF 12x4.5 - www.flybrushless.com/prop/view/340

The performance peaks, expressed in input power, RPM, and thrust in the above testing, show this for the prop:

285W, 8070 RPM, 1502g (52.98oz) thrust = 5.27 Watts / gram for thrust
406W, 8571 RPM, 1960g (69.14oz) thrust = 4.82 Watts/gram for thrust

I never rewound the motor that I have but would expect to see a typical improvement in it if it and would expect it to do well it it were rewound to 2PdLRK.

So looking at all the number and pondering it a little I think that your plan is practical.

I think maybe you want to look at 5S A123 so as to better emulate the voltage of a 4S LiPO . I'd have to reserch it a little but I think a 5S 2300 mAh A123 pack would weight a little less than 400 grams. It would be charged and rested at close to 17V and in use would drop to 15-16V under load pretty quickly and then maintain that voltage pretty well for duration of the capacity. And the usable capacity would be right around 2000 to 2100 mAh. All of that depends on the current A123 26650 cells performing like the ones I have used.

If you were flying 3D at an average current draw of about 20A (that would be 300W at 15V) the duration from 2300 mAh pack would be only 7 to 8 minutes at the best I think.

Jack
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