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Old Jan 16, 2011, 02:16 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by BD Flyer View Post
Thanks for the info (and saving me a lot of time reading through the whole thread).

Tom Frank sure did an excellent job keeping everything organized.

I plan on ordering one or two of these HD key chain cams in the next few weeks... can't wait!
BD,

Thanking Tom Frank is a great idea. He devotes a lot of time and energy to this topic. It's most appreciated.

Bill
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 03:02 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
ApexAero's Avatar
Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
4,400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The only two people who said theirs bricked also said the camera did not come back on after the firmware flash procedure. Again, you said you took some pics and vids AFTER you flashed the firmware, and that worked except the date was still there. You said you were trying to turn ON the date/time stamp? Did yours come with it already turned off? They normally come with the date stamp already on. So, something else is going on with yours that is different.
I got Diana to remove the time stamp for me before it was shipped. And I was trying to ad the time ON file for todays speed runs but it didn't work. I thought the first go round didn't take thats why I added it the second time then blank.
After correspondence with Diana it will be resolved but not today
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 03:40 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Yes, I think the same. Assume you take a 2000 mAh AA battery at 1.3 V or so. Needs to be stepped up 4x to get 5V. So it would need 4x the current. So you end up with an equivalent 500 mAh 5 V battery, IF conversion is at 100% efficiency... Then it needs to go through the charger circuit (I assume it charges the internal battery, like the car adaptor). So in the end, so I would be curious to see if 5 hrs recording time is really achieveable...

But for sure it will be longer than standard .
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Hi Tom,

I would prefer no save and continue function so long as the camera can reliably save the file when a low battery is detected.

As for the recording time on a single AA cell; Unless you have determined it yourself I would expect the up time to be much less than that. These things can be hopelessly inefficient as the voltage is stepped up in the emergency charger and stepped down in the camera charge circuit. I would not be too surprised if it was only about 60 to 90 mins. I hope I'm wrong!

Simon
Good points guys... I have not tested the external emergency charger, and I did not consider efficiency losses. The 5 hours was an off the cuff WAG, without much thinking involved!

I don't know if I mentioned, though, that My Camera Guy has told me they are developing a new version that can record for about 4 hours. I don't have any details, though. He was asking what users prefer on the stop/record/continue function. There's no one answer for that obviously. I have another HD camera that records continuously, and will stop/save a the file if battery condition gets too low, so that's my preference. I gave feed back they need to add that function as a minimum. The existing HD key cam does not save a file when the battery gets low, so the segmented recordings are probably a good idea for it if you can't afford to lose a clip.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 03:44 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
I got Diana to remove the time stamp for me before it was shipped. And I was trying to ad the time ON file for todays speed runs but it didn't work. I thought the first go round didn't take thats why I added it the second time then blank.
After correspondence with Diana it will be resolved but not today
ApexAero,

Glad to read this will be resolved.

Bill
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:04 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
Tom.
There is a problem with the 'normal' FAT32 format used on Flash cards - a limit of 4 gigabyte file size.
the 20min save and re-open yealds a file less than 2 Gigabytes long, & Looking at the numbers, that is probably a safe value, as 2gig is the max if the 32bit number used to store file length is used as a Signed Integer, 4 gig if it is used as an Unsigned Integer - a common GotchYa for programmers.
So - removing the 20min close/opennew restrictiion will rusult in a quiet phffut as the fileing system retires hurt, or at least garbages the file....
Mike
See link http://www.buzzle.com/articles/fat32...ize-limit.html

Mike
Yes, I knew about file size limits, but have never tested to see what happens when its exceeded... i.e. does the whole file get trashed, or does the file get closed with the end truncated? My HD key cam always seems to average right around 7Mbps data rate, and my 20 min. files are about 1.05 GB in size. I know some people are reporting AVERAGE data rates up to 10Mbps, but I haven't seen it on mine... don't know why the big differences.

My JAZZ HD camera shoots very good 1280x720 @ 30 fps video (a little better than the HD key cam due to it's better lens and real 5MP sensor) with an average data rate of only about 4.2Mbps, so I think the the HD key cam could actually benefit (given the lower quality optics) by reducing the data rate a bit and the file sizes along with it. But I digress...

My main gripe with the stop/save/continue (S/S/C) on this camera is I fly up to 30 min. with some planes, and would like uninterrupted video. I think they could double it to 40 min., and still easily contain the video on a 4 GB flash card if the battery would last that long, which mine does for now while its new and healthy

I've confirmed the file is saved when the card fills up, and the file is not saved when the battery gets low, so the big issue is battery life with the S/S/C function. If it were 30 min. instead of 20 min., I probably would not care as much.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:06 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
Earlier there was mention of a dedicated battery charger chip on the camera board.
There are such chips available, and implement the 'normal' Lipo charge cyclye :-
Charge at Constant Current ( usually 1C e.g. 240mA for a 240 mAh cell) until the cell voltage is 4.2vots.
Then charge at Constant Voltage until the current drops to (typically) less than 10% of the CC rate.
The battery is now fully charged.
This accounts for the brief red flash when a fully charged camera is plugged into USB - the charger chip goes through all phases very quickly.
Mike
Makes sense... thanks for the info.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:25 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Update on external charger and Stop/Save/Continue function

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
...
They seem to feel 20 min. stop/save function is preferred by most users. I'm not one of them as long as I have plenty of battery life, and now that the external "emergency charger" is available, the recording time can be boosted to about 5 hours +- an hour with a single 2000 mAh AA cell.

The more people that ask for this, the better then chances of a new firmware for this, but i'd want to still be able to keep the date stamp turned off along with it.

I'll ask My Camera Guy one more time.
I'll reply to myself to update this.

My Camera Guy said they WILL be doing a firmware mod to allow continuous recording. But it won't be done until sometime after the Chinese New Years holiday, which lasts about 2 weeks or so as I recall. So sit tight, and maybe well have a fix soon. I've requested that the date stamp removal be retained with this additional mod.

Also, they have decided to STOP selling the external "emergency charger" as a separate item on eBay... probably because it's going to be included as an accessory with the camera. But if you want one, My Camera Guy said you could email him directly and he could sell one separately off eBay. Also, now that we know how the car charger works by moving the USB +5V from pin #1 to pin #4, you could also buy one of the similar chargers for cell phones, and modify it for use with the camera.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:33 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
BD,

Thanking Tom Frank is a great idea. He devotes a lot of time and energy to this topic. It's most appreciated.

Bill
Bill, et. al.

Thanks for the kudos on the thread... they have not gone unnoticed and are appreciated!

I'll admit more time has gone into this than I thought when I started this... I guess I underestimated how fast the HD key cam following would grow. BUT, as more things are discovered and questions get asked, answered, and documented with links in the FAQ Post #3, it will save a lot of time and posting for every one later. When some one asks a question you know is answered in the FAQ, you can just refer them to Post #3!
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:46 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I'll reply to myself to update this.

...
Also, they have decided to STOP selling the external "emergency charger" as a separate item on eBay... probably because it's going to be included as an accessory with the camera. But if you want one, My Camera Guy said you could email him directly and he could sell one separately off eBay. Also, now that we know how the car charger works by moving the USB +5V from pin #1 to pin #4, you could also buy one of the similar chargers for cell phones, and modify it for use with the camera.
I bought two of them on ebay. They are on the way.

Bill
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:55 PM
Must not buy more planes!
mclarkson's Avatar
USA, KS, Wichita
Joined Jul 2010
2,270 Posts
Slightly off-topic, I apologize. But is there a non-HD key chain cam thread? I have a ton of trouble with mine, and would love to get some input.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 05:03 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Slightly off-topic, I apologize. But is there a non-HD key chain cam thread? I have a ton of trouble with mine, and would love to get some input.
See "The MEGA Keyfob Camera thread in this same forum".
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 16, 2011 at 05:19 PM.
Old Jan 16, 2011, 05:03 PM
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mavlo77's Avatar
The Netherlands
Joined Oct 2008
1,224 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Slightly off-topic, I apologize. But is there a non-HD key chain cam thread? I have a ton of trouble with mine, and would love to get some input.
Join the club at:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115052

Iam also having troubles. You can see it in one of my last posts there.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 06:15 PM
Fidler & twidler
empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
3,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Yes, I knew about file size limits, but have never tested to see what happens when its exceeded... i.e. does the whole file get trashed, or does the file get closed with the end truncated? My HD key cam always seems to average right around 7Mbps data rate, and my 20 min. files are about 1.05 GB in size. I know some people are reporting AVERAGE data rates up to 10Mbps, but I haven't seen it on mine... don't know why the big differences.

My JAZZ HD camera shoots very good 1280x720 @ 30 fps video (a little better than the HD key cam due to it's better lens and real 5MP sensor) with an average data rate of only about 4.2Mbps, so I think the the HD key cam could actually benefit (given the lower quality optics) by reducing the data rate a bit and the file sizes along with it. But I digress...

My main gripe with the stop/save/continue (S/S/C) on this camera is I fly up to 30 min. with some planes, and would like uninterrupted video. I think they could double it to 40 min., and still easily contain the video on a 4 GB flash card if the battery would last that long, which mine does for now while its new and healthy

I've confirmed the file is saved when the card fills up, and the file is not saved when the battery gets low, so the big issue is battery life with the S/S/C function. If it were 30 min. instead of 20 min., I probably would not care as much.
Yes I agree there, a less conservative close/Opennew of 40 mins sounds safe, 60mins if the programmer likes running the tube
Lets C what the Cnewyear brings..
Mike
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 07:12 PM
Gravity - It's the law
Yabba's Avatar
USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
1,025 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
My Camera Guy said they WILL be doing a firmware mod to allow continuous recording. But it won't be done until sometime after the Chinese New Years holiday, which lasts about 2 weeks or so as I recall. So sit tight, and maybe well have a fix soon. I've requested that the date stamp removal be retained with this additional mod.
Uhoh, you guys better sit back and pop a couple of cold ones. Might be little while.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/chinesenewyear1.html

Looks like a month out (to the end)

Yabba
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 09:17 PM
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USA, NC, Apex
Joined Aug 2003
836 Posts
I just got my camera from eletoponline365 but I can't seem to get it to work.

If I push the power button (the bigger of the two buttons) the yellow led starts flashing: on about a second, off about 1/2 sec and just continues to do that over and over again.

Pushing the "shutter" button (at least that is what the instructions called it, the smaller of the two buttons) doesn't have any effect at all, led just keeps flashing yellow as above.

Pusthing the power button again once it is flashing as above will cause the yellow led to flash once quickly and then it returns to the 1 second on:1/2 off yellow flashing.

Eventually after a couple minutes of not pushing any buttons and the unit turns itself off again.

Plugging in the usb cable and the red charging light comes on and stays on (until charged up and it turns off).

Pushing the power button when the usb is connected causes it to alternate between red and yellow led flashing and I get a "Removable Diske E:" on my computer which if I open I get "DCIM" and in that folder I get "100MEDIA". Sounds promising, but I never get anything inside 100MEDIA no matter what series of buttons I push to try to get it into either video or still picture mode (with or without the usb cable attached). If I right click on E: it tells me it is FAT with 8,192 bytes used and 970,752 bytes free (that seems might small - isn't this thing supposed to have an internal 512Mbyte memory?).

The only recording mode I've ever gotten it into is as a usb camera (those instructions - post 427 - are the only ones that seem to work).

Am I just incredibly dense/stupid when it comes to trying to follow simple instructions or is something wrong with my camera?

Thanks
Tim
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