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Old Nov 16, 2013, 01:55 PM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
USA, CA, Redondo Beach
Joined Apr 2002
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73" ESM BF-109E Engine Size

Hey all,
I recently ordered the ESM BF-109E. My question is, would a 50cc engine actually make the plane faster than a 35cc? Or would the bigger engine just require a larger prop, make the ground handling even more unruly and end up flying about the same speed?

Thanks.
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Old Nov 16, 2013, 03:28 PM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
USA, CA, Redondo Beach
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Maybe I should rephrase the question. For example, lets say the 35cc turns an 18x8 at 8500 rpm and the 55cc turns a 22x8 at 8500 rpm. Since both props have an 8 pitch and they are turning at about the same speed, wouldn't the plane fly at the same speed with either engine?

I guess what I'm getting at is that I looked at the manual for the plane and at the specs for the PTE-36 which is the recommended engine for the plane, and it looks like that engine is about 1/2" too long. The DLE-55RA is just under an 1" too long, but if I have to mod the firewall anyway, it doesn't make much difference whether I cut off 1/2" or 1". I know the 55 will stick out more and I don't really care about that. But if the 35cc is going to have plenty of authority, then I'll just go with a 35cc engine. I just don't like underpowered planes.

I skimmed through the KMP / YT Me 109 Build Thread over on RCU. That is a huge thread. LOL From what I can tell, most people are running Saito's.
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Old Nov 17, 2013, 12:30 AM
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will a 55cc fit without hacking the cowl to pieces? I doubt it because a 35cc is already a tight fit
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Old Nov 17, 2013, 09:29 AM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
USA, CA, Redondo Beach
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Thanks, I don't know. I just ordered the plane last Sun and don't have it yet. Lengthwise, I will have to cut the firewall back for either engine. I think the cowl should be wide enough for either engine as well (I think ). The question is how far will the head be sticking out the bottom.

Maybe a 55cc is just way too much engine for this plane. I don't really know. I am fine with a 35cc if it will fly the plane well. Like I said, I skimmed through the thread on RCU and most of those guys are running Saitos. Ironically, not much info on people running the PTE-36, which is the engine that is recommended on the site.
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Old Nov 17, 2013, 10:00 AM
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A DLE 35 RA would be ideal.
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Old Nov 17, 2013, 10:24 AM
Warbirdman
United States, MN, Plymouth
Joined Mar 2013
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Enines?

I agree a dle 35
An engine choice for a radial powered plane like a p-47 has more
impact because of the large frontal area.
Your plane will scream,no worries
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 03:16 PM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
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Thanks guys. Last weekend there was a guy at our local field flying a World Models P-47 with a 30cc in it, and that thing was ripping! Not sure how heavy that plane is, but I'm thinking the ESM 109 might be a little heavier. So still undecided at this point. The other factor is that a couple of my buddies just got ESM Bearcats. One is putting a DLE-55RA in his and the other has a BME 50cc in his. I will have the only Axis plane in our group and I can't have them out climbing me.
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 05:24 PM
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yeah but are those designed for 50cc because if yes then they won't be out climbing anything
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 06:05 PM
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slopeiron's Avatar
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Looks like the recommended engine for the Bearcats is the PTE-36 as well (troybuiltmodels.com).
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 10:53 PM
Warbirdman
United States, MN, Plymouth
Joined Mar 2013
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Hey Slope,...don't let them out run you

I did cut my motor box in half and shortened to fit the engine and cowl
so it would look scale on my sea fury.It wasn't that hard.
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Old Nov 18, 2013, 11:58 PM
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My bearcat was clocked at 135mph, so zee German gonna need some power.
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Old Nov 19, 2013, 03:16 AM
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The bearcar and Corsair, needs more nose weight. those ESM kits alwas come out tail heavy so people tend to bolt nearly a pound of lead to the firewall to get them to balance.

The BF109 with its longer nose moment does not need as much weight so it comes out lighter. The Bearcat and Corsair will be faster but they loose steam when the nose points up, even with a 50cc on the nose. They also don't have the ground clearance to swign a big enough propeller to absorb the power so people tend to run high pitch props. Fast but no vertical.
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Old Nov 21, 2013, 09:06 AM
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I think the PTE36 would be a good choice. I have the DLE 30 in my 120 Zero. At nearly 15 pounds dry weight she is quite heavy. The plane has not been clocked but she is as fast as any hotrod warbird at the field and the vertical is unlimited with either prop 18x8 or the 18x10... of course it's just breaking in and the best is yet to come.

PTE36 is sitting under my workbench.
Currently fitting a EVO35 to a 120 corsair
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Old Nov 22, 2013, 08:12 PM
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I have a 20x10 prop on the front of one of my ESM me-109s (its electric). You wouldn't want to go larger diameter...you'll run out of clearance.
However, a 50cc gasser can spin a 20x10 pretty damn good. My eme 55 can spin a 20x10 at 7500 without touching the needles out of the box.

If you really want to outrun the blokes flying the corsairs and bearcats......you could put an 18x12 prop on it using a 50cc motor.........

Due to the narrow landing gear...PUT A GYRO on the rudder/tailwheel on rate mode...and that will take carry of the P factor issue.
Disregard those pushing the "learn to fly and use the rudder". Yup do that, but don't ruin your plane in the process because without the gyro...you WILL ground loop it or take off heading sideways off the runway and have some hairy recoveries. Don't be THAT guy that mushes his brand new plane because he's too stubborn to put a gyro in it.
Turn off the gyro once airborne....or just leave it on as its in rate mode and it wont effect flying that much.
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Old Nov 22, 2013, 10:45 PM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
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Thanks kahloq. Good to know you can run a 20" prop on this plane with no problems. I actually just posted in the other thread on RCU about the ground clearance (seems like more people over there flying these planes). At any rate, you pretty much answered my question. I wouldn't have thought that you could run an 18" prop on a 55cc even with a 12 pitch. But I might just do that to get that extra inch of clearance. And I can't have those Bearcats out running me.

BTW, I'm not against using a gyro. I consider myself a descent pilot but I've heard that this plane is a handful on the ground and I would much rather fly on Sunday mornings than spend my time doing repairs. Any recommendations on a good one?
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