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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:30 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Another $.02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony97 View Post
Good ideas:
Using 3 cell. Yes calibrated. Yes voltage protection but set for 1st level at 11.1. I can try to turn it off next go around. Green light never goes red like you would think it would if thought was on a 4 cell setting then only detected 12.2 volts. Good ideas....keep them coming.
I don't think it's voltage protection related now...
In watching your video, you seem to be just easing the airframe off the ground.
Have you been successfully flying that way all along?
Whenever I do that (and that's been as long as I've been flying the DJI/Naza stuff) there's a tendency to flip.
I know that you're probably afraid of flipping from a higher altitude, but have you ever tried using a little more authority on the throttle? You can actually sort of pop the airframe up, out of ground effect, and settle it into a 3 to 5 foot hover.

Maybe you could test over some higher grass?
Also, PM TahoeEd and see what he thinks.
I've read his posts giving similar advice...

As far as your voltage correlations, I have not got a clue.
Perhaps with a full charge the airframe is even more sensitive to ground effect, barometric pressure, etc.
Then, with a lower voltage, it's not quite so frisky... (can't believe I'm suggesting this, but a few days ago I thought the sunlight thing was crazy)
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:43 PM
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doghel's Avatar
Joined Dec 2006
1 Posts
DX7 and AR7000 setup

Hi,
I have been messing with this for two days now... could you PLEASE send me setting information for the GPS. I am not able to get the 3 position (Flaps) to work with the Gear so I can have - GPS -> Attitude -> Manual. offcourse with Fail-Safe in between.

Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony97 View Post
Do you still need DX7 settings? PM me if you do.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:06 PM
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Tony97's Avatar
Joined May 2004
717 Posts
Tied up at the moment. Can you click my name, go to my page, click for all posts by tony97. You should find a topic called dx7 settings a few months back. If you can't find, pm me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by doghel View Post
Hi,
I have been messing with this for two days now... could you PLEASE send me setting information for the GPS. I am not able to get the 3 position (Flaps) to work with the Gear so I can have - GPS -> Attitude -> Manual. offcourse with Fail-Safe in between.

Thank You
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:14 PM
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Joined May 2004
717 Posts
Yea, pretty much been putting up with it on this quad. Acted like this once new, I thought it was due to bad batteries. Ordered new ones, worked for a month or so. Then, started again and has been this way for months. I could never put two-and-two together.

Once voltage 12.2 it flies great! You can takeoff fast or slow. Yes, with higher authority, same result unless voltage about 12.2 and it goes right up, easy.

Thanks for your tips. I'll PM TahoeEd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
I don't think it's voltage protection related now...
In watching your video, you seem to be just easing the airframe off the ground.
Have you been successfully flying that way all along?
Whenever I do that (and that's been as long as I've been flying the DJI/Naza stuff) there's a tendency to flip.
I know that you're probably afraid of flipping from a higher altitude, but have you ever tried using a little more authority on the throttle? You can actually sort of pop the airframe up, out of ground effect, and settle it into a 3 to 5 foot hover.

Maybe you could test over some higher grass?
Also, PM TahoeEd and see what he thinks.
I've read his posts giving similar advice...

As far as your voltage correlations, I have not got a clue.
Perhaps with a full charge the airframe is even more sensitive to ground effect, barometric pressure, etc.
Then, with a lower voltage, it's not quite so frisky... (can't believe I'm suggesting this, but a few days ago I thought the sunlight thing was crazy)
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:31 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
7,026 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
Yes, wind will affect position hold.
Is the Naza able to eventually get back to the set position, or is the wind overpowering it?
Either way, you'll need to up the basic gains to compensate.
Probably just pitch and roll.

For when you're flying the airframe (Atti or Man) you may need to up the attitude gains to see if the extreme stick corrections can be reduced.
You may have been in such a strong gale that it took that much stick.
Is your rig stock DJI?
I've never heard anyone needing that much stick to compensate for wind...

Check threads or my blog for gains explanation.
Hi TJ, yes my rig is stock DJI. And yes today it was pretty windy so it was probably a bad day to test things out. It never was able to get back to position so I guess the wind was overpowering it. Read your blog; thanks for the clarification on the gains. Will up them a bit more and try it again to see if I get oscillation.

Will also check out Tahoe Ed's thread on the Naza when I have time... lots of chaff in there so I'll have to search for the wheat.

Will report back when I fly it again.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 05:00 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, Norwich
Joined Jun 2004
451 Posts
600 Quadcopter

Just about finished my latest quad...built from various thickness fibreglass (PCB) board and TRex 600 heli tail booms.The leg frame is birch plywood, rubber isolated from the arms/motors. Biggest job was machining up the motor mounts to hold the AX2810Q- 750KV motors (11X5" Graupner props). 4x 40A ESC mounted underneath well away from the other stuff, carrying 2x 3cell 4.0Ah batteries on the carbon rails should allow for various cameras to be fitted and slid back and forth to balance.

Contemplating whether to fit the GPS under (or on top) the fibreglass 'top hat' (would be nearly on top of the NAZA) or not? ...was tempted to use the stainless steel bowl, but as it was slightly magnetic, used as a mould instead ....or maybe a collapsible mounting post in the event of a rollover?

john
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 12:31 PM
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u2builder's Avatar
USA, NH, Alstead
Joined Oct 2007
4,977 Posts
Futaba 9C Failsafe Switch

Hey Mike, here is how I did the manual switch on my 9C with 7 channel RX.

Prog Mix (pick any mix and edit as follows)

(ofst>gear)
rate>-54%
mix off/on depending on switch
Mas>ofst
Slv>5:gear link>off
SW>H
Posi>down

I am using channel 5 for the U inputs on a three position switch: M, ATT,GPS
I am using channel 7 for the X2 orientation on a three position: off, CL,HL

You set up switches and adjust "rate" to get the Failsafe button in Assist to turn blue.

I was also able to set up Futaba TS PCM (FM) mode Failsafe to light up a Blue button if I turned the TX off but have since switched to 2.4 FRSKY module and it works differently so I don't remember what I did.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 02:52 PM
Registered User
Orlando, FL
Joined Oct 2004
457 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetstuff View Post
Just about finished my latest quad...built from various thickness fibreglass (PCB) board and TRex 600 heli tail booms.The leg frame is birch plywood, rubber isolated from the arms/motors. Biggest job was machining up the motor mounts to hold the AX2810Q- 750KV motors (11X5" Graupner props). 4x 40A ESC mounted underneath well away from the other stuff, carrying 2x 3cell 4.0Ah batteries on the carbon rails should allow for various cameras to be fitted and slid back and forth to balance.

Contemplating whether to fit the GPS under (or on top) the fibreglass 'top hat' (would be nearly on top of the NAZA) or not? ...was tempted to use the stainless steel bowl, but as it was slightly magnetic, used as a mould instead ....or maybe a collapsible mounting post in the event of a rollover?

john
Himmmm. Looks very similar to AeroXcraft design
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 09:49 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
7,026 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder View Post
Hey Mike, here is how I did the manual switch on my 9C with 7 channel RX.

Prog Mix (pick any mix and edit as follows)

(ofst>gear)
rate>-54%
mix off/on depending on switch
Mas>ofst
Slv>5:gear link>off
SW>H
Posi>down

I am using channel 5 for the U inputs on a three position switch: M, ATT,GPS
I am using channel 7 for the X2 orientation on a three position: off, CL,HL

You set up switches and adjust "rate" to get the Failsafe button in Assist to turn blue.

I was also able to set up Futaba TS PCM (FM) mode Failsafe to light up a Blue button if I turned the TX off but have since switched to 2.4 FRSKY module and it works differently so I don't remember what I did.
Hi u2builder, thanks for the detailed instructions! The programming on the 10CHG is a little different than the 9C (I used to have a 9C - great radio but I needed more functions and expanded memory) so I'll have to see if I can make that work. I gave up the other day because I had been messing with it for a few hours and I just wanted to fly it.

So now I have a return to home question. I flew my F450 twice today as the winds were a little lower. I still had the issue of burying the right stick and the quad just barely moving in GPS mode. I didn't have a chance to adjust the gains yet. It is more maneuverable on Attitude mode I noticed. I decided to test the RTH function so I flipped the switch. Sure enough the FW450 went up to a pretty decent altitude and slowly started to circle/descend. I had my finger on the switch just in case. As it got within a foot of the ground it was still flying in a pretty large circle and looked like it was going to collide with the ground, rather than softly land. I flipped the switch and took control no problem.

The question is: Is the GPS/RTH function supposed to gently land the craft straight down or is the circling part of the RTH? Just making sure there's nothing wrong with it because it really did seem like it was going to hit the ground on the move and flip over, not gently land.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 10:14 PM
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Wirewolf903's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Jan 2011
562 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Hi u2builder, thanks for the detailed instructions! The programming on the 10CHG is a little different than the 9C (I used to have a 9C - great radio but I needed more functions and expanded memory) so I'll have to see if I can make that work. I gave up the other day because I had been messing with it for a few hours and I just wanted to fly it.

So now I have a return to home question. I flew my F450 twice today as the winds were a little lower. I still had the issue of burying the right stick and the quad just barely moving in GPS mode. I didn't have a chance to adjust the gains yet. It is more maneuverable on Attitude mode I noticed. I decided to test the RTH function so I flipped the switch. Sure enough the FW450 went up to a pretty decent altitude and slowly started to circle/descend. I had my finger on the switch just in case. As it got within a foot of the ground it was still flying in a pretty large circle and looked like it was going to collide with the ground, rather than softly land. I flipped the switch and took control no problem.

The question is: Is the GPS/RTH function supposed to gently land the craft straight down or is the circling part of the RTH? Just making sure there's nothing wrong with it because it really did seem like it was going to hit the ground on the move and flip over, not gently land.
Sounds like its drifting a lot during RTH..that's not normal. Is it also drifting when in GPS hold? If so I would recalibrate the compass again and make sure your GPS antenna settings are correct. My RTH lands pretty quick but has no swirl or spin as it comes down. Good luck
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 11:52 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
5,017 Posts
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirewolf903 View Post
Sounds like its drifting a lot during RTH..that's not normal. Is it also drifting when in GPS hold? If so I would recalibrate the compass again and make sure your GPS antenna settings are correct. My RTH lands pretty quick but has no swirl or spin as it comes down. Good luck
What Wirewolf903 says and some gain adjustments will help the drift.
Since you're calling it circular, be sure it's not a small amount of TBE.
Sometimes the last, residual TBE has to be resolved with gain adjustments...
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:46 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, Norwich
Joined Jun 2004
451 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskoos View Post
Himmmm. Looks very similar to AeroXcraft design
Yup.....' Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'...... AeroXcraft seemed like the best solution to me for a bigger quad....so I had a bash at making something similar, without the benefit of CNC.....as I have more time than money and enjoy making stuff

john
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:33 AM
Fly Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
EarthOrbiter's Avatar
Central California USA
Joined Feb 2011
379 Posts
Wind direction and vibrations

Hi all,
We were playing around today at the park and discovered a interesting phenomena. While tracking toward the wind (watch the flags) vibrations were made. Flying with the Wind there were almost no vibrations.
FPVQuadTesting (9 min 27 sec)
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:30 AM
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mauromassari's Avatar
Brasil, CE, Fortaleza
Joined Jun 2011
1,100 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthOrbiter View Post
Hi all,
We were playing around today at the park and discovered a interesting phenomena. While tracking toward the wind (watch the flags) vibrations were made. Flying with the Wind there were almost no vibrations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECqIt...ature=youtu.be
Nice calm fly, too bad now you are adicted to FPV

Mauro
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:07 AM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
5,017 Posts
Apparent Wind...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthOrbiter View Post
Hi all,
We were playing around today at the park and discovered a interesting phenomena. While tracking toward the wind (watch the flags) vibrations were made. Flying with the Wind there were almost no vibrations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECqIt...ature=youtu.be
Makes perfect sense to me...
If you fly RC planes, you experience it all the time.
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Oct 10, 2012 at 09:31 AM.
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