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Old Mar 27, 2015, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Its the same chemistry, just that our "lipos" are designed for higher power output, this naturally makes them heavier for the same capacity.

The manufacturing process is not quite as good, hence the cheaper prices.
Where did you see that there the same chemistry??? Lithium ion is not a lithium polymer battery. They are made completely differently and are composed of different ingredients. There are many high quality lipos made (tatu, thunder power, max amps, etc) and they are not lithium ion by any means. 2 different chemical constructions not the same.

Lithium ion can be drained down to 2.5v per cell safely (if memory serves me correct) that is way below a lithium polymer safe discharge voltage of 3.3v. Lithium ion have much higher density but very low discharge rate. Max usually 2c but from my testing it's more along 1.5c. They are also able to stay completely charged and do not degrade from it like lithium polymer.

Lithium polymer high discharge rate but lower density when comparing same size/weight packs to lithium ion. They also can not Stay fully charged long before the chemicals start degrading the battery. Typically I've found a lithium polymer battery can actually only produce about half the C rating that is displayed on the battery. Example if it's a 5000mah 25c pack it would not do 125 amps continously It would actually only be able to discharge continuously at around 12.5c Or 62.5 Amps. Half the time they can barely do that. I've tested many brands and it has carried over in every brand no matter how expensive.

In short lithium polymer and lithium ion are 2x completely different batteries that are capable of different tasks.
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Old Mar 27, 2015, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by plasoneal View Post
Looking for anyone with experience on these new BOLT batteries.

I've just finished a new EDF scratch build (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=258) which basically I designed around the Nanotech 4s 2650 35-70c battery.

When I flew today, mostly flat-out for the full flight for the first time, when I landed my battery was extremely puffed. It was about a 3 1/2 minute flight, and the battery was pretty well exhausted. After it cooled for an hour or so, individual cells were around the 3.5 volt range.

Anyway, most 4s batteries out there are much "fatter", which simply won't fit my bird. The BOLT 2800 4s has almost the same dimensions as the Nanotech. At twice the price, I would hope its a substantially better battery. But can anyway tell me if the BOLT battery would solve my puffing issue? Obviously with the higher voltage, it could boost my performance a bit too... but if I continue to experience puffing like I just did today, it will litteraly split my fuselage open. (Battery sits on its "edge" in the fuselage, with not a lot of extra room.)

The current battery, looks like it drained about 2000 ma in those 3 1/2 minutes, so that should have been significantly less drain than the 35c constant rating... The battery is a couple years old, but only has about 12-15 cycles on it. Its never been "puffed" before, but it has gone down to its original size after cooling.

Thanks in advance for any perspectives.

Paul
Off topic and to address Paul.

I also use Nano Tech batteries as well as other brands.

My several year old but not many cycles 2200 mah Nano Tech 25-50 C batteries I estimate have around 1800 mah remaining capacity. The most demanding device I run on these is a Blade 450 X which with my flying and my setup draws an average of 16.5 amps or 7C (based on new, not current capacity). They come back warm, but not hot and not puffed. My timer is set to 4 minutes and I put back around 1183 mah when charging. 1183 out brings them down to around 3.81 volts per cell after resting. All the cells are nearly perfectly matched for capacity and balance perfectly on a PL6. The same PL6 shows IR average around 4.2 per cell.

Why am I saying all this? Well, it is commonly accepted that marketing and not engineering determines "C" rating. It is further accepted that one should divide advertised C rating by half. Based on my experience, Nano Tech battery C rating should be reduced by 2/3 ? Maybe a little more than 2/3?

If I needed more than 7-9 C sustained, I think I would use the 45-90 C Nano Tech. If I needed a lot more than 7-9 C sustained, I'm not sure. Perhaps revolectrix?

My EFLITE Apprentice S flown in the pattern pulls about 100 mah per minute. Twelve minutes pulls 1200 mah from the 2200 mah Nano Tech, or about 3C. 3C seems just about right for these batteries.

For more information read the battery testing thread of MSCGUY.
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Old Mar 27, 2015, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by flohio117 View Post

In short lithium polymer and lithium ion are 2x completely different batteries that are capable of different tasks.
This may shed some more light. It appears lithium polymer is a sub category of lithium ion?

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ideal_battery
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Old Mar 27, 2015, 09:40 PM
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It's not really a sub category as much as its a different battery. A sub category would be like "Nano-tech " here are types of lithium ion batteries :http://lithiuminvestingnews.com/9196...eries-6-types/
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Old Mar 27, 2015, 10:01 PM
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Nano Tech brand is a sub category of Turnigy brand. All Nano Tech batteries are Turnigy. Not all Turnigy batteries are Nano Tech.

Similarly all "LiPo" batteries are lithium ion batteries. Not all lithium ion batteries are so called "LiPo" batteries.

Your link above describes six different chemical compositions, which I think are all considered lithium ion batteries. Included as a sub category of these chemical compositions making up different lithium ion batteries are so called LiPo batteries.

Isn't "LiPo" just a lithium ion battery engineered and manufactured for a different purpose than most of the other lithium ion batteries?

I ask because I often see listed as a common lithium battery fallacy the idea that "LiPo" is somehow not a lithium ion battery. When I saw your original post, I considered that you were communicating this fallacy.
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Old Mar 28, 2015, 03:05 AM
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A lithium ion battery is not a lithium pymer battery. They are made 2 completely different ways. Nano-tech isn't just the turnigy brand it refers to the nano technology used in That type of lipo. Not all lipos are nano tech.therefore nano tech is a sub category of a lipo. If you read around on different websites or even look at the physical aspects you will see lithium ion and lithium polymer are as much different as they are alike. Either way this thread is getting way off topic. There are plenty of lithium ion threads on here already. Let's try and keep this about these bolt batteries that still seem very vague.
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Old Apr 03, 2015, 04:33 PM
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Gerd Giese have done some brutal discharge tests of this battery...55c (German)

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...-an-.../page19
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Old May 01, 2015, 07:58 PM
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Just got done flying the 3s 2800mah Bolt batteries. I only charged them to 3.5v per cell but my next charge will be at the full 4.35v per cell. So far I am not impressed one bit. I flew them on a newly built Armattan fpv 333 quad and yes the setup is power hungry but this pack had tremendous voltage sag! I have flown the same setup with 65c nano-techs and they were way better. I still have to test them at full voltage and i also have some 3s 3300mah bolts to try so hopefully those won't be as much as a disappointment.
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Old May 02, 2015, 07:57 PM
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Yep its official! The bolt series Suck I charged 4x packs up today all the way to 4.35v per cell. As soon as I take off there is huge voltage sag. It was exactly like flying with a 25c battery on this quad. I was only able to flew around pretty easy and could only fly for 2300mah before my voltage was low and I has to land. 2300 out of a 3450mah pack. Not very good. On the 2800 I was only able to pull 1500mah out before my voltage was low and I had to land. So far the best batteries I've found are the nano tech 65c batteries. They actually perform. The turnigy A-spec suck also and are also a waste of money. Hopefully this post helps someone.
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Old May 20, 2015, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flohio117 View Post
Yep its official! The bolt series Suck I charged 4x packs up today all the way to 4.35v per cell. As soon as I take off there is huge voltage sag. It was exactly like flying with a 25c battery on this quad. I was only able to flew around pretty easy and could only fly for 2300mah before my voltage was low and I has to land. 2300 out of a 3450mah pack. Not very good. On the 2800 I was only able to pull 1500mah out before my voltage was low and I had to land. So far the best batteries I've found are the nano tech 65c batteries. They actually perform. The turnigy A-spec suck also and are also a waste of money. Hopefully this post helps someone.
Yup. I too was disappointed with the A-Spec G2 packs... They puffed after being drawn out to a reasonable 28%. BIG waste of money. I fly Admiral now and they're MUCH more resilient and better priced.
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Old May 20, 2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by flohio117 View Post
Just got done flying the 3s 2800mah Bolt batteries. I only charged them to 3.5v per cell.
This may be where you went wrong, Bolt should never be discharged past 3.8V.
There are several reports of these providing excellent power.

As far as A-spec, I've never tried the G2, but my original one is the best lipo I've ever owned. After 2 years, IR is still 1-2, and the cells balance perfectly.
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Old May 22, 2015, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by nighthawk0077 View Post
This may be where you went wrong, Bolt should never be discharged past 3.8V.
There are several reports of these providing excellent power.

As far as A-spec, I've never tried the G2, but my original one is the best lipo I've ever owned. After 2 years, IR is still 1-2, and the cells balance perfectly.
A "big" issue seems to be manufacturing consistency:
1. Batch to Batch
2. Over time as in, the same size and brand lipo's I bought two years ago are better than the lipo's I got last month.

I do not know of a solution, just sayin!
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