Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 02:42 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,196 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Cool! Looks like the focus is OK?
In numberz the increase from 480p to 720p doesn't sound so much, but looking to your video in full screen, it is certainly a significant step up from the #3 in terms of definition!

Can't wait to receive my camera and film onboard!
My focus is not too bad, but I think it could be tweaked a small amount to move the depth of focus slightly further out for AV purposes. For general use with subjects both far and near, I think it's pretty good right where it is. The overall focus is a bit difficult to tell solely by looking at the compressed images in the camera's video, because the compression tends to dull fine detail like grass, weeds, tree branches in the distance, etc.

Adjusting focus in the webcam mode helps since the image can be kept stationary to better see the changes in the distant fine detail area. The only down side from that is the 640x480 image is sub-sampled off the CMOS sensor, so it's smaller and center frame biased with much less pixel width and height, you don't see how the edges of the full HD frame are affected, and that's where the focus is the worst when the center is in good focus. Sometimes backing off from the best center focus a tiny bit to improve the edge focus can result in a better looking overall image across the entire frame.
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
I wonder if your 808HD only be unblocked and able to upload new firmware with the date and time. Do you still record video in over 10000kbps?
Have you used the firmware to remove the date and time?
Yes, I used the firmware given in this thread. And yes, I still record with over 10000kbps. MediaInfo gives me the following on a new sample clip

Code:
General
Complete name                    : G:\PTDC0002.MOV
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : QuickTime
Codec ID                         : qt  
File size                        : 28.1 MiB
Duration                         : 22s 0ms
Overall bit rate                 : 10.7 Mbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
Tagged date                      : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Main@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 1 frame
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 22s 0ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 10.2 Mbps
Width                            : 1 280 pixels
Height                           : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 30.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.369
Stream size                      : 26.8 MiB (95%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
Tagged date                      : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00

Audio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : PCM
Format settings, Endianness      : Little
Format settings, Sign            : Signed
Codec ID                         : sowt
Duration                         : 22s 0ms
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 512 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 1 channel
Sampling rate                    : 32.0 KHz
Bit depth                        : 16 bits
Stream size                      : 1.34 MiB (5%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
Tagged date                      : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 03:15 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,196 Posts
If you have the time, can you do a different check of your bit rate for the video you used in the example below? Just right click on the file icon, select properties and click the details tab, then report what you show for the "data rate". The reason I ask is because the camera records with a variable bit rate, and what MediaInfo shows as the "bitrate" might be the maximum bit rather than the average? The other method I gave will report the average bit rate.

I've not gotten more than a little over 7000 kbps average bit rate with mine, though I need to shoot more samples. It seems unusual that the average bit rate would vary by as much as 3000 kbps with this camera, but perhaps it does.

FWIW, anything over 5000 kbps is likely not visible to most viewers, and the free posting site with the highest video quality (ExposureRoom.com) will reduce the bit rate on uploads to this value for this reason. Bottom line is even 7000 average bit rate will produce as excellent a video as this camera's lens and CMOS can produce, and the file size will be about 30% smaller than one shot with 10000 kbps average bit rate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deepinside View Post
Yes, I used the firmware given in this thread. And yes, I still record with over 10000kbps. MediaInfo gives me the following on a new sample clip

Code:
General
Complete name                    : G:\PTDC0002.MOV
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : QuickTime
Codec ID                         : qt  
File size                        : 28.1 MiB
Duration                         : 22s 0ms
Overall bit rate                 : 10.7 Mbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
Tagged date                      : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
 
Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Main@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 1 frame
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 22s 0ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 10.2 Mbps Is this average rate or max rate?
Width                            : 1 280 pixels
Height                           : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 30.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.369
Stream size                      : 26.8 MiB (95%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
Tagged date                      : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
 
Audio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : PCM
Format settings, Endianness      : Little
Format settings, Sign            : Signed
Codec ID                         : sowt
Duration                         : 22s 0ms
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 512 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 1 channel
Sampling rate                    : 32.0 KHz
Bit depth                        : 16 bits
Stream size                      : 1.34 MiB (5%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
Tagged date                      : UTC 2004-01-01 00:00:00
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 09, 2011 at 03:24 PM. Reason: spelling
Old Jan 09, 2011, 04:59 PM
define("BEASTMODE", "1");
KeithLuneau's Avatar
United States, LA, Moreauville
Joined Jan 2002
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I've seen a wide variation in the birate on all the clips I've made. Anywhere from 7000 to over 11000Kbps! Here's the info on one of the higher ones using the details tab as explained above...

I've tried taking videos before and after taking pictures, since it was suggested earlier in the thread that taking video after pictures would result in a lower bitrate. That didn't seem to be the case for me. In fact, I took 3 clips back to back, about 4 or 5 minutes long each in the same conditions, the first was around 7Mbps, the next around 10, and the last was over 11, the one in the picture here...

Seems to be random I guess... For what it's worth, I can't really see much, if any difference in the quality between the 3 clips.

Edit - also attached the info given with "MediaInfo"
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 05:35 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,196 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
I've seen a wide variation in the birate on all the clips I've made. Anywhere from 7000 to over 11000Kbps! Here's the info on one of the higher ones using the details tab as explained above...
...
Thanks for that info, Keith. So the bit rate is the average, and it varies a LOT. I think the key to the differences are how intricate the detail in the images are and how fast they are changing, so panning with a highly detailed scene should show a higher bit rate to capture the detail. Intermediate frames between key frames with this codec are just capturing differences from adjacent frames, so with little motion, the changes from one frame to the next are less with lower bit rate needed to capture them. The video processor in this camera seems to be more sophisticated and more powerful than my older HD camcorder which comes more than twice as much. My daughter got a new sony "Bloggie" for Christmas, so I'll look at some of those clips just for comparison.
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 05:43 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,196 Posts
More AviDemux Editing Info

I just added these new comments to my FAQ AviDemux editing post:

Sometimes when re-encoding the native .MOV file the sound is intermittant and breaks up while playing the video during editing. Not to worry... it always seems to play fine in the final saved video. Similarly, reloading a file that you just saved can result in some strange sound during playback in the editor, like the sound track plays at several times normal speed! Again, it always plays fine after you save out that revamped file.
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 05:49 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,275 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I just added these new comments to my FAQ AviDemux editing post:

Sometimes when re-encoding the native .MOV file the sound is intermittant and breaks up while playing the video during editing. Not to worry... it always seems to play fine in the final saved video. Similarly, reloading a file that you just saved can result in some strange sound during playback in the editor, like the sound track plays at several times normal speed! Again, it always plays fine after you save out that revamped file.
Tom,

That's good Tom, I noticed the crackling and sound cycling during editing. I was hoping it would clean up during the final coding of the file.

Bill
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 07:16 PM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
4,348 Posts
Average bit rate

Looking at deepinside's video in Adobe Premiere, it is specific that the bitrate number is "average"

I will see if I can see the min and max by graphing in Ulead, but I don't seem to get the codec working for it there. Here are some data rate graphs from Adobe Premiere.

Data rate The line represents the average data rate.

Sample size The red bars represent the sample size of each keyframed frame.

Differenced frames sample size The blue bars represent the sample size of the differenced frames between compression keyframes.
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Last edited by victapilot; Jan 09, 2011 at 08:10 PM.
Old Jan 09, 2011, 08:19 PM
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RADAR_66's Avatar
Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2010
101 Posts
Heres a few from today....one of me "trying" to fly and some on the hat cam
Wing dragon 4 onboard crash (1 min 42 sec)


Wing dragon sporter crash (4 min 9 sec)


Ez yaking it up (2 min 48 sec)
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 10:30 AM
Registered User
Nottinghamshire, UK
Joined Dec 2009
582 Posts
Just to update on my camera focus problem (link 1 & 2). The vendor has continued to answer my emails within 24 hours and has offered to exchange the camera.

Quote:
eletoponline365 says: dear friend,

my boss said the lens is dirty, would you like sent it back, i will repalce for you.

woud you agree?
And with that, today its gone back!

I'm not sure on the boss's diagnosis (could be internal I suppose) but I can't fault the service so far. FWIW, the problem seemed slightly worse every time I used the cam.....

Simon
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 11:06 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,275 Posts
Simon,

It's good to read you are being taken care of properly. Just remember, a $40 miniature HD camera doesn't have much quality control being used during production.

Bill
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 11:56 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,196 Posts
20 min. stop/save/continue recording - better without it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by autorail1 View Post
I have not done anything to the cam except record.
Just curious if you have done anything to resolve your bad files with the 20 min. stop/save/continue recording. I'm pretty confident your seller will replace the camera if it is one of the four mentioned back in post #2. If so, I would definitely try the date removal firmware patch first if it were me. They are replacing any cameras that might be bricked by this process, so you'd have nothing to lose other than some time waiting for a replacement. And if your firmware is somehow corrupted, this just might fix it.

FWIW, I have asked my camera contact if they can eliminate the 20 min. stop/save/continue function altogether, and they have confirmed it is possible, just as was done on some of the old 808 cameras. If there is enough interest, I think they would implement this for us. I thought most users would rather not have the 20 min. stop/save/continue recording, as long as the camera will properly close and save a file when the flash card fills up. But perhaps I guessed wrong? I don't want to fill up this thread with many posts that agree with my hunch, so if you violently disagree with me, please post your objection. I'll assume all others who read this and don't reply would like the camera to continuously record without stopping until the memory card is full.
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 12:12 PM
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jantares's Avatar
Poland
Joined Dec 2010
35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks for that info, Keith. So the bit rate is the average, and it varies a LOT. I think the key to the differences are how intricate the detail in the images are and how fast they are changing, so panning with a highly detailed scene should show a higher bit rate to capture the detail. Intermediate frames between key frames with this codec are just capturing differences from adjacent frames, so with little motion, the changes from one frame to the next are less with lower bit rate needed to capture them. The video processor in this camera seems to be more sophisticated and more powerful than my older HD camcorder which comes more than twice as much. My daughter got a new sony "Bloggie" for Christmas, so I'll look at some of those clips just for comparison.
It is probably another reason. In my two videos recorded on the same stationary object. The size of one is 7000kbps and the other 10000kbps. And should have the same values.
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 12:20 PM
Gravity - It's the law
Yabba's Avatar
USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
1,025 Posts
refocus and avidemux test

Okay, I tried to refocus but I'm like someone else posted, I'm not much good at it.

Please give your general impression of the focus of my camera now. I ended up screwing the lens IN about 1/8 of a turn but I'm not sure if this is the answer.

I know that it's not "shooting down the fence" but I did that to come up with this finished focal length.

Note that I like to fly high and far away. Plus some mid-range stuff. Not so worried about close (less then 3or 4 hundred feet).

I tried Tom's Avidemux tutorial and his settings to clip this with AvDemux and I'm not sure what happened to the sound at ~23 seconds. I'm sure it was something I did and I'm not concerned about that.

Just general impressions from you guys would help me figure if I'm in the right zipcode as far as focus is concerned.

808HD test focus (0 min 45 sec)


Thanks

Yabba
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 12:35 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,196 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
It is probably another reason. In my two videos recorded on the same stationary object. The size of one is 7000kbps and the other 10000kbps. And should have the same values.
OK... I agree... something else unexplainable is going on, and so far I have not been able to duplicate it.
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