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Old Oct 13, 2012, 08:03 AM
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Brain size does not belittle. He was admiring them .
Randy
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 08:10 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
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Don' Do It!

Naturally, as the size of the aircraft goes up and the complexity of the aircraft goes up, the cost goes up. And if you use top quality parts, you pay. You can buy cheaper stuff and try to save money but some people feel that when you get to this size they would be more comfortable with brand name receivers, ESC and servos. Cheaper motors can save quite a bit and, afterall, the motor is just for the climb. If it craps out you may still be able to fly for an hour.

After you get this in the air, then you are going to want a better radio. That DX6i or Hitec Optic Sport may have been fine for your Radian Pro or your parkflyers but, "this is a real sailplane", or so you tell yourself, so more money.

Then you will fall in love with soaring even more so you will want an even better glider. You visit Esprit and start looking at wing loading and airfoils. You visit Kennedy Composites and drool over the Supra and the Maxa.

Your read about Altitude Limited Electric Soaring, ALES. You learn there is a contest near you, so you buy a CAM unit and go play. And you LOVE IT!

Next thing you know you are gliding your parkflyers and trying to catch lift. Speed seems less important over time. Duration is everything.

You find a hill and slope soar your F27 Stryker. Hey, this is really cool! 60 minute flights and full aerobatics with no motor run.

You are hooked. You start watching birds circling in the sky and wonder where you might be able to use as a launch site. Every hill is a potential slope site.

You are a Jeti Knight, using the force!

Oh Yoda, why did you not warn me.

Then someone shows you where you can try dynamic slope soaring, and you go over to the dark side. 400 mph without a motor. You are a Sith.


Isn't RC flying wonderful? Always more toys to buy!
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:14 AM
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USA, CA, Chico
Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
I have done business with Esprit and have found their quality, service and prices to be terrific. My comments concerning Horizon and Eflight reflect the great job that they do at getting high quality tangible products into local hobby shops in a sector of the hobby which where the pickings from other vendors are pretty scarce. Other than the Radian (which I ought to purchase by the six-pack) I have gotten to the point where most of the stuff I use is too specialized to find in any hobby shop. (Reflected by my most recent Esprit order).

Actually, no recent model makes me more unhappy than my Horizon Radian. Every time I fly it it reminds me of of how much fun I can have per dollar spent compared to my top end molded planes. It is encouraging to see vendors offer planes which have really high fun to cost ratios -- and which are accessible to newcomers.

Happy Landings,

Don

Well said Don!!! As a long time ago sailplane guy ( first ship a Hobie Hawk in 70s) I've been through the full gamut : molded slope racers and thermal ships. But then got out of it for awhile. Got back into planes couple years ago to try power and 2.4 ghz didn't Wana spend ALOT as I had committed my limited funds to non airplane investments. So started off with some parkzone foamies not expecting much,,, but wow!!!! Was I in for a shock!!! As you said, in terms of bang for buck these HH planes can't be beat. But I still long for a REALLY nice soaring ship. This one caught my eye,,, but my Radio a DX-8 really wouldn't cut it, and by the time I've spent the $800 on a DX-18 and the cost of this plane nicely equipped we're talking a pretty big cash outlay for me. Plus where I live in Chico we really don't have any big enough grass fields to fly this beautiful ship
:-(,,,,, I was hoping HH would've come out with something in the 2 meter range a little less expensive,,, but then again nothing like a nice full house 3 meter.
But recently I just bought TWO E Flite brushless micro Sbachs for less than cost of servos in this plane,, and those mini Sbachs are AMAZING for the price. I Applaud folks at HH for bringing such incredible well made technology to the mainstream market at such reasonable prices!!!! Now I just have to ponder if I Wana jump in for $1600 for plane and radio for this bad boy. :-)
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:21 AM
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Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Don' Do It!

Naturally, as the size of the aircraft goes up and the complexity of the aircraft goes up, the cost goes up. And if you use top quality parts, you pay. You can buy cheaper stuff and try to save money but some people feel that when you get to this size they would be more comfortable with brand name receivers, ESC and servos. Cheaper motors can save quite a bit and, afterall, the motor is just for the climb. If it craps out you may still be able to fly for an hour.

After you get this in the air, then you are going to want a better radio. That DX6i or Hitec Optic Sport may have been fine for your Radian Pro or your parkflyers but, "this is a real sailplane", or so you tell yourself, so more money.

Then you will fall in love with soaring even more so you will want an even better glider. You visit Esprit and start looking at wing loading and airfoils. You visit Kennedy Composites and drool over the Supra and the Maxa.

Your read about Altitude Limited Electric Soaring, ALES. You learn there is a contest near you, so you buy a CAM unit and go play. And you LOVE IT!

Next thing you know you are gliding your parkflyers and trying to catch lift. Speed seems less important over time. Duration is everything.

You find a hill and slope soar your F27 Stryker. Hey, this is really cool! 60 minute flights and full aerobatics with no motor run.

You are hooked. You start watching birds circling in the sky and wonder where you might be able to use as a launch site. Every hill is a potential slope site.

You are a Jeti Knight, using the force!

Oh Yoda, why did you not warn me.

Then someone shows you where you can try dynamic slope soaring, and you go over to the dark side. 400 mph without a motor. You are a Sith.


Isn't RC flying wonderful? Always more toys to buy!

DAMM!!!! You guys are REALLY making me want this thing!!! I might just have to bite the bullet and dive in ,,,, pun intended. :-)
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:21 AM
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Airman 74,

Unless you are flying thermal duration contests, the DX8 will be more than adequate to fly a full house sailplane.

If you want a low cost 2M full house get the Radian Pro.

Horizon Hobby has templates for the Radian Pro that you can download for the DX8. And I would imagine you could use those templates as starting points for the Mystique.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
One can also find very good electronics that cost less than the recommended items.

We also should not belittle the brains of our feathered, distant, relatives. Most birds use language, most can solve problems, and some can even use tools. Heck! Some crows actually make tools! It really isn't much of an insult to call someone a "bird brain". And they fly much, much, better than we can.

Over the decades I've been flying I have shared thermals and slopes with many birds and I have only out climbed them on a few, maybe four, occasions. I suspect that's because they weren't trying.
Birds are what clearly demonstrated to scientists that brain size DOESN'T equate to intelligence,,, bigger ISNOT always better in brains. In the field of animal intelligence there was a VERY well known African Grey parrot named Alex who had been studied for 25 years. Alex could name hundreds of objects when you held them up and tell you what that object was used for,, but most impressively he could put words together in sentances not taught to him by anybody ,,, another words ,,,, expressing his thoughts,,, not just mimicking !!
Pretty impressive for a brain the size of a pea!!! It was estimated he had intelligence equal to about 5 year old human
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Airman 74,

Unless you are flying thermal duration contests, the DX8 will be more than adequate to fly a full house sailplane.

If you want a low cost 2M full house get the Radian Pro.

Horizon Hobby has templates for the Radian Pro that you can download for the DX8. And I would imagine you could use those templates as starting points for the Mystique.
Yes I've flown both radians,, but once you've flown a composite ship,,, well,, you know the rest. Yes maybe the mystique with my DX-8 would be ok but I love those sliders on the DX 18. And the flexibility in switch assignment, and the sailplane specific programming,,,, kinda talking myself into this aren't I !!! :-)
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:41 AM
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As my good flying buddy said : Jerry!!! What the heck you thinkin!!! You've spent waaaay more than that on a good bicycle!!!!
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:26 PM
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Australia, QLD, Beaudesert
Joined Jul 2008
594 Posts
Hi guys,
I was looking at the radian pro, as I am after a plane with a bit of speed, handle a bit of wind,and is ldecent size. And for the money, I think would be good.
Then found the Mystique, and was thinking that to spend the extra and have the size, speed, annd gliding for longer flights.And it sure is a nice looking unit
Neal
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:54 PM
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Joined Jun 2010
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A Few Questions

Is it the 870 or the 1250 Power 25 that should be used? Little confused there.

The kit comes with the linkage protectors, but they dont show how they should be attached. It appears your cut them out of the molded form and expoxy them on, but the way they are pictured would lead me to believe there is very little surface that actually comes in contact with the wing surface. Almost like trying to glue a piece of paper on edge to a table, if you know what I mean.

There are also 2 other pieces in the mold with a suggested round partially cut circles in the mold, but there is no explaination what those are recommended for. Are those something to protect the undercarriage from getting scratched up on surfaces other than a grass field landing? I would think there would be something protecting the underbelly from getting too beat up.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:58 PM
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Also for the Radian Pro users, what I got very frustrated with was the motor mount since it kept pulling apart from the body and the wing attachment is weak. I liked it, but not until those issues popped up and had to be repaired or replaced.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 10:32 PM
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I remember Alex, Airman74. A remarkable animal. Although, it was a little disturbing that his trainer seemed to talk like a parrot too! Hmmm. Who was training who?

I used to live in a river valley that, at the time, was just about the biggest breeding population of Bald Eagles in the lower 48. I could sit in the yard or out in the boat and watch young eagles learning to soar. Make no mistake; they need to learn just like us even if their natural gifts are superior.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 11:37 PM
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United States, CO, Lakewood
Joined Jan 2011
278 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamHorizon View Post
Firstly my apologies on the manual contradiction, it has been corrected on line and will be represented in all further shipments. There was some debate in testing this project which motor works best and why there was 2 motor choices. My apology for missing this in the final proof, I take full responsibility.
The good news, they both work well. Itís a tradeoff for performance vrs duration.
As to which one is best, it really depends on the owner. As this product is intended to the newer soaring pilot more launches may be favorable so the 870 will be your choice. If youíre a more experienced soaring pilot then the 1250kv may be your preference, it will give greater climb rate however less duration, 10-15% less than the 870 roughly speaking, obviously you are pulling greater amps with the higher kv motor.

Hope this clears things up,

Kind regards

Pete
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRCer View Post
Is it the 870 or the 1250 Power 25 that should be used? Little confused there.

The kit comes with the linkage protectors, but they dont show how they should be attached. It appears your cut them out of the molded form and expoxy them on, but the way they are pictured would lead me to believe there is very little surface that actually comes in contact with the wing surface. Almost like trying to glue a piece of paper on edge to a table, if you know what I mean.

There are also 2 other pieces in the mold with a suggested round partially cut circles in the mold, but there is no explaination what those are recommended for. Are those something to protect the undercarriage from getting scratched up on surfaces other than a grass field landing? I would think there would be something protecting the underbelly from getting too beat up.
The PDF of the manual (revised, see above) on the 3rd post in this thread states that the 870 is the suggested motor...

--Jason
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 06:44 AM
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Lawrenceville, GA
Joined Nov 2007
5,997 Posts
Dear Horizon

Has anybody there actually built this thing? Using the instructions that come with it?

The descriptions for the aileron servos are adequate. Take another look at the instructions for the flap servos. I presume we use the 3-inch extensions, but the instructions are silent.

Page 13 - a glue stick? What are you talking about?

Why does the flap servo cover have a slot in it? What should we use to glue the servo fairings to the wing? A little help here, guys.

And, look at page 20. There are two sets of camber settings. What should I do?

Frustrated.

Rick
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickn816 View Post
Has anybody there actually built this thing? Using the instructions that come with it?

The descriptions for the aileron servos are adequate. Take another look at the instructions for the flap servos. I presume we use the 3-inch extensions, but the instructions are silent.

Page 13 - a glue stick? What are you talking about?

Why does the flap servo cover have a slot in it? What should we use to glue the servo fairings to the wing? A little help here, guys.

And, look at page 20. There are two sets of camber settings. What should I do?

Frustrated.

Rick
The paper manual must be different from the PDF.

I looked at page 13 and don't see any reference to a glue stick. In fact I can't find a reference to a glue stick anywhere in the manual. Perhaps you could be more specific. The "required" lists 2 kinds of epoxy and 2 CAs, but no glude stick.


I don't see any camber settings on page 20 of the PDF manual. But on page 39 it lists:

Camber Settings:
Speed: 1mm up both ailerons and flaps
Cruise: 1mm down both ailerons and flaps
Thermal: 3.5mm down both ailerons and flaps

Are these what you are asking about? These are typical sailplane camber settings. These mixes would be included in a typical sailplane radio. If this was a pure rather than electric, there would be a launch setting also. And some people have 2 thermal camber settings.

If your radio can't provide both ailerons and flaps for your camber settings, then just do the flaps for your camber settings. This will work fine. On a standard 4 channel radio, before there were computer radios, they would just put the flaps on the left stick and had marks that would correspond to the camber setting, or they would use the throttle trims to set camber during the flight.

If you are not familiar with camber settings, this may be helpful:

Choosing a sailplane radio
http://www.flyesl.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=223

Best Practices for camber settings
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403126

Setting Surface Throws
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/vbgl...howentry&id=36


On page 18 of the PDF I see the slot in the flap cover. Good question about the slot. Only guess is that originally the control arms were going to be external and, when they moved them internal the did not redo the flap covers. Or these are covers they use for another model and they just reused them. Likely you can just tape over the slot. If you glued some 1/64 ply over the cover to cover the slot it would be stronger but probably not needed.

Typically you don't glue servo covers/fairings to the wing. You tape them on so that you can remove them if you ever have to service the servo or the control arms. Clear packing tape works well.
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